Millennial Considerations

Truth7t7 said:

Jesus will reign on earth?

Jesus isnt gonna hang out on this earth with mortal humans, he warned the believer against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

Click to expand...

You seem to enjoy being wrong
That scripture is in regard to Jesus saying there will be false christs , and refers to the Man of Lawlessness that will deceive people into believing he is God - the very delusion that Jesus said he will send to those who reject the truth of him

seventysevens said:

You seem to enjoy being wrong
That scripture is in regard to Jesus saying there will be false christs , and refers to the Man of Lawlessness that will deceive people into believing he is God - the very delusion that Jesus said he will send to those who reject the truth of him

Click to expand...

Matthew 24:23-27 warns the believer against "Any Claim" made that he/Jesus would be in a physical body on earth.

"Believe It Not"!

Truth7t7 said:

Matthew 24:23-27 warns the believer against "Any Claim" made that he/Jesus would be in a physical body on earth.

"Believe It Not"!

Click to expand...

Read it carefully
Jesus is telling that there will be people who will profess that they are the Messiah and will deceive people into believing they are the Messiah , but do not believe it because when the real Messiah ha come it will be seen a brightly as lightning coming from the east to the west ...in others words His coming to earth will be unmistakable that the Real Messiah is coming


23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus is saying that there will be people on earth that proclaim they are Christ ,but when Christ comes it will be such that everyone will know that the real Christ has come -the Genuine overcomes the false

Truth7t7 said:

Matthew 24:23-27 warns the believer against "Any Claim" made that he/Jesus would be in a physical body on earth.

"Believe It Not"!

Click to expand...

Brother, you wouldn't need to be arguing this if you accepted the historicity of Matthew 24. You're well aware of the sizable body of scriptural and historical evidence that I cite from time to time.

You're more than free to use it if you change your mind.

Truth7t7 said:

You won't rationalize away the clear teaching of scripture.

Matthew 25:31-46 is the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom as clearly explained.

Verse 31-32 Jesus returns, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 42 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

You can't change the basic, simple, truth presented.

You have a bias in desperately trying to keep your 1000 year earthly kingdom alive, that isn't found in scripture.

Click to expand...

I thought the basic truth was salvation through Christ NOT good works done to the brethren!!!!!!!! That scripture needs to be looked into for God had a reason that he judged people that way.

Marilyn.

jgr said:

Brother, you wouldn't need to be arguing this if you accepted the historicity of Matthew 24. You're well aware of the sizable body of scriptural and historical evidence that I cite from time to time.

You're more than free to use it if you change your mind.

Click to expand...

lol!

Matthew 24:29:31 Jesus Christ will return "immediately after a future tribulation" not one you believe took place in 70AD

Love ya jgr

70AD fulfillment "Luis De Alcazar, 1614AD" the Roman Catholic Jesuit, The Counter Reformation.

No Thanks

Darby & Scofield?

No Thanks

Marilyn C said:

I thought the basic truth was salvation through Christ NOT good works done to the brethren!!!!!!!! That scripture needs to be looked into for God had a reason that he judged people that way.

Marilyn.

Click to expand...

Your correct, God did have a reason, Matthew 25:31-46 is the final judgment to eternal life , and eternal damnation.

Truth7t7 said:

lol!

Matthew 24:29:31 Jesus Christ will return "immediately after a future tribulation" not one you believe took place in 70AD

Love ya jgr

70AD fulfillment "Luis De Alcazar, 1614AD" the Roman Catholic Jesuit, The Counter Reformation.

No Thanks

Darby & Scofield?

No Thanks

Click to expand...

OK. I would have been surprised if you accepted the offer, but thought I'd make it anyway.

So, continue the battle of the futurized fantasists.

LastSeven said:

The mark of the beast is still here, always has been, and people are still being figuratively beheaded and resurrected as they come to new life in Christ every day.

Click to expand...

The bodies of 21 Coptic Christians who were beheaded by ISIS have been found in a mass grave in Libya, according to Libya’s interior ministry.

Bodies of 21 Christians Found Beheaded by ISIS in Mass Grave in Libya


Tell that to the surviving family members of the above, that these beheadings weren't literal but were merely figurative. Since you are obviously wrong that the beheadings in Revelation 20 are only figurative, one has to wonder what else you might be wrong about.

Truth7t7 said:

Darby & Scofield?

No Thanks

Click to expand...

Darby and Scofield were the modern incarnations of futurism. You can't accuse them of disagreeing with you.

"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."
John Nelson Darby, 1839

jgr said:

Darby and Scofield were the modern incarnations of futurism. You can't accuse them of disagreeing with you.

"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."
John Nelson Darby, 1839

Click to expand...

As I have posted before, The Early Apostolic Church Fathers Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD, they all taught of a future literal human antichrist and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

jgr they didnt see the 70 AD fulfillment that Luis De Alcasar and yourself teach.

My belief regarding the future "Great Tribulation" is the historical orthodox view.

Truth7t7 said:

As I have posted before, The Early Apostolic Church Fathers Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD, they all taught of a future literal human antichrist and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

jgr they didnt see the 70 AD fulfillment that Luis De Alcasar and yourself teach.

My belief regarding the future "Great Tribulation" is the historical orthodox view.

Click to expand...

So why don't you feel Justin Martyr was correct about a thousand years occurring after the 2nd coming?

DavidPT said:

So why don't you feel Justin Martyr was correct about a thousand years occurring after the 2nd coming?

Click to expand...

Justin Martyr associated the 1000 years with 2 Peter 3:8, as the days of the tree of life

The eternal realm of the Lord.

When you quote Justin Martyr in Dialogue with Trypho The Jew, include the complete chapter

The early chuch fathers mentioned taught of a literal human antichrist, great tribulation, second advent, eternal kingdom.

Truth7t7 said:

As I have posted before, The Early Apostolic Church Fathers Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD, they all taught of a future literal human antichrist and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

jgr they didnt see the 70 AD fulfillment that Luis De Alcasar and yourself teach.

My belief regarding the future "Great Tribulation" is the historical orthodox view.

Click to expand...

Refer here. You'll find those you cited to be in the minority.

Stephen Mendes said:

This video below debunks the 'Left Behind or Led Astray' that BABerean2 was pushing....

Click to expand...

The first source below is from a paper written by a Brethren historian in 1966.
Check it for yourself.


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

Truth7t7 said:

Justin Martyr associated the 1000 years with 2 Peter 3:8, as the days of the tree of life

The eternal realm of the Lord.

When you quote Justin Martyr in Dialogue with Trypho The Jew, include the complete chapter

The early chuch fathers mentioned taught of a literal human antichrist, great tribulation, second advent, eternal kingdom.

Click to expand...

Chapter 81. He endeavours to prove this opinion from Isaiah and the Apocalypse

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, 'According to the days of the tree [of life ] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.' Luke 20:35f.

CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)

No one could possibly read this and conclude that Justin was equating a thousand years with eternity, could they???? This part for one proves it, that Justin didn't equate the thousand years with that of eternity---For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject.

Let's go to Genesis 5 for a moment.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

70 years shy of a thousand years. Clearly Justin took this thousand years in the literal sense then, and this for one proves it.

For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years-----And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Why would Justin be taking the thousand years in a literal sense when it came to the days of Adam, while at the same time taking this same thousand years as meaning eternity?

Justin went on to say----that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.

If a thousand years and eternity are one and the same, then this part----the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place---could never take place. In order for the latter to take place, it requires the former ends first. Ummm...eternity has no end, but a thousand years would. But that doesn't mean the thousand years can't take place in the eternal realm. But that's not the same as the thousand years and the eternal realm being one and the same.

Truth7t7 said:

Your correct, God did have a reason, Matthew 25:31-46 is the final judgment to eternal life , and eternal damnation.

Click to expand...

Hi Truth,

You know full well that famous scripture telling us how to receive eternal life.

`For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.......(Jon 3: 16)

`,,,Most assuredly, I say to you, he who DOES NOT enter the sheep-fold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.` (John 10: 1)

You still have not explained to me or others or even to your own self, `Why on earth are these Matt, 24 people allowed to have life if they have been climbing up the ladder of good works!!!!!!`

Marilyn.

Original Happy Camper said:

Yes he did but it does not say that they all hear it at the same time.

Click to expand...

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

.

Since fingerprint scans and retina scans are popular biometrics used today for identification it is possible that some advanced usage of these will be used , the eyes are in the forehead and fingerprints on the hand - also palm prints are being used for identification.

It is possible to create and method of using a combination of each of these with a number to be used , it will be needed to partake of the economy and since ID is always used to get a job it will likely be incorporated with that as well.
We already have things like a facial scan to unlock your phone or a retinal scan so we are living in a time where various methods can be utilized to make this prophecy come to the world wide economy

DavidPT said:

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


Assuming this mark is physical and that one takes this mark in their right hand as opposed to in their forehead, well there are accidents that happen to people from time to which might cause one to lose a limb, such as their right arm. What then? If you lose your right arm, you obviously lose your right hand as well, the hand the physical mark is in.

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

.

Click to expand...

All the text says is that hour is coming, which doesn't require it has to be the same hour that these things occur.

Using Revelation 20 as a template, the above seems to be meaning the following.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life at the beginning of the thousand years; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation after the thousand years have finished.


In this scenerio would it still be true that the hour came, in the which all that are in the graves hear his voice? Apparently yes, unless someone would like to explain how those who come to life again after the thousand years do that without hearing His voice first, and how that would mean the hour didn't come in their case. And then also explain how those who come to life at the beginning of the thousand years could do that without hearing His voice first, and how that would mean the hour didn't come in their case either.