Migratory birds in North America are shrinking as their wings get bigger. Climate change is to blame

Kylie · Nov 23, 2022

d taylor said:
I do not need to see the data to know it is false The Bible already proves that God is in control of His creation, i need no other data to believe this.

In other words, your position is, "It disagrees with what I've already decided is true, therefore I MUST reject it."

Seems to me that if there really was some flaw in the data you'd be able to point to it. But you refuse to even judge the data on its own merits. You aren't interested in a discussion, are you? By showing everyone that you aren't even willing to look at the data before you declare it to be wrong, you are showing yourself to be closed-minded.

AV1611VET · Nov 23, 2022

Kylie said:
That's not true. The data can be accessed with the cost of a subscription. Or, you could write to the authors and ask them nicely if they could send you a copy of the paper, and you could get it for free.

That went over your head, didn't it?

Akita Suggagaki · Nov 24, 2022

d taylor said:
I do not need to see the data to know it is false The Bible already proves that God is in control of His creation, i need no other data to believe this.

Part of God's control is to let humans experience the consequences of their foolishness.

AV1611VET · Nov 24, 2022

Akita Suggagaki said:
Part of God's control is to let humans experience the consequences of their foolishness.

Yup.

Challenger, Titanic, Thalidomide, Florida Footbridge ... to name a few.

Kylie · Nov 24, 2022

Okay, so this was added as a comment on one of my posts, so I'm not sure how to quote it. I'm not even sure how D Taylor did this, since I can't see a way to do it. So I'll just cut and past it manually.

D Taylor said:
Ok so lets talk about the data. So out of say 40 million migratory birds that migrated through North America for 30 years. How many of the 40 million were measured 20, 30, 100.

What do you mean by "measured?" Do you mean captured, weighed, beak size measured, that sort of thing?

Bird banding (where a bird is caught, measured, and has a band or series of bands placed around the leg so the bird can be positively identified if caught again) began in the very early 20th century (around 1902). Since then, over 63 million birds have been banded, and these include representatives from virtually all species in North America. Today, 1,200,000 a year are banded, and 85,000 are recovered. By following the birds as they are caught, banded, then recovered in subsequent seasons, we can see how the birds behave over a long period of time. SOURCE

So what was your point here?

Occams Barber · Nov 24, 2022

Kylie said:
Okay, so this was added as a comment on one of my posts, so I'm not sure how to quote it. I'm not even sure how D Taylor did this, since I can't see a way to do it.

The comment was inserted into your post using the new "Comment" facility. It was originally intended that we non-Christians also have 'Comment' access. Unfortunately, there was no way to allow us to have the 'Comment' facility without also giving us access to Comment on Christians Only forums.

As a result, access to 'Comment' is only available to Christians.

OB

Kylie · Nov 24, 2022

Occams Barber said:
The comment was inserted into your post using the new "Comment" facility. It was originally intended that we non-Christians also have 'Comment' access. Unfortunately, there was no way to allow us to have the 'Comment' facility without also giving us access to Comment on Christians Only forums.

As a result, access to 'Comment' is only available to Christians.

OB

Thanks for the explanation, but it sucks to be denied a feature like that.

Shemjaza · Nov 24, 2022

Occams Barber said:
The comment was inserted into your post using the new "Comment" facility. It was originally intended that we non-Christians also have 'Comment' access. Unfortunately, there was no way to allow us to have the 'Comment' facility without also giving us access to Comment on Christians Only forums.

As a result, access to 'Comment' is only available to Christians.

OB

That is an unfortunate consequence

Kylie · Nov 24, 2022

D Taylor said:
Your source link took me to washer and dryers

Okay, if you could please not comment on my posts and just reply to them as usual, that would be great, since I have absolutely no way of replying to your comments other than manually cutting and pasting everything, which is a real pain in the backside.

The source I cited was a PDF article, "One Hundred Years of Bird Banding in North America" by John Tautin. You can download the PDF article HERE. You can also see a different web page which cites the data HERE.

SelfSim · Nov 24, 2022

Kylie said:
Okay, if you could please not comment on my posts and just reply to them as usual, that would be great, since I have absolutely no way of replying to your comments other than manually cutting and pasting everything, which is a real pain in the backside.

There is one way .. but the price might be considered exorbitant ..

Kylie · Nov 24, 2022

SelfSim said:
There is one way .. but the price might be considered exorbitant ..

Change my religion icon to "Christian"? Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.

Akita Suggagaki · Nov 25, 2022

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FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 18, 2022

Kylie said:
Thanks for the explanation, but it sucks to be denied a feature like that.

Not sure I see the justification for it - what's the USP for it?

Occams Barber · Dec 18, 2022

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Not sure I see the justification for it - what's the USP for it?

I'm not sure what you mean by USP?

The justification for not giving us access to 'Comment' appears to be technical. Unlike 'Reply' which can discriminate between Christian and non-Christian posts, access to 'Comment' is all or nothing.

Since CF doesn't want to allow non-Christians to have access to Christian Only forums, the decision was to not allow non-Christians to use the 'Comment' facility.

We are now seeing the resultant confusion.

OB

Kylie · Dec 18, 2022

Occams Barber said:
I'm not sure what you mean by USP?

The justification for not giving us access to 'Comment' appears to be technical. Unlike 'Reply' which can discriminate between Christian and non-Christian posts, access to 'Comment' is all or nothing.

Since CF doesn't want to allow non-Christians to have access to Christian Only forums, the decision was to not allow non-Christians to use the 'Comment' facility.

We are now seeing the resultant confusion.

OB

I used to be on a Harry Potter forum where there was a section that was hidden completely until the staff decided to invite you in. Surely the staff here could do something similar with the Christian only areas? That way we non-Christians could have that feature and still not use it to comment in the Christian Only areas, since we couldn't see them.

Or just remove that function for everyone? I've only seen it used a handful of times, it seems awkward and clunky (how do you make a reply to such a comment?), it provides no functionality that can't also be achieved by simply replying to the post, and we got along just fine without it for years.

Astrid · Dec 18, 2022

Overapplication of global warming theory
Is to be expected. Plate tectonics, evolution,
any major theoretical advance gets the same
treatment. EVertything is coz evolution,

"Climate change" is the new paradigm, aso
if the petunias bloom early, well, that's
climate change.
Perhaps bird wings have evolved in
synch with climate change, but it's the kind
of claim that makes eyes roll among the
people who don't give " climate change"
total unreserved Truth status.

Occams Barber · Dec 18, 2022

Kylie said:
I used to be on a Harry Potter forum where there was a section that was hidden completely until the staff decided to invite you in. Surely the staff here could do something similar with the Christian only areas? That way we non-Christians could have that feature and still not use it to comment in the Christian Only areas, since we couldn't see them.

Or just remove that function for everyone? I've only seen it used a handful of times, it seems awkward and clunky (how do you make a reply to such a comment?), it provides no functionality that can't also be achieved by simply replying to the post, and we got along just fine without it for years.

I think your second option (remove the function) makes sense.

Allowing us to not see Christian posts would also prevent Forum visitors (and potential members) from seeing the posts making them less likely to join the club. It would also mean that the non-Christians would be forced to talk to each other and never see a Christian viewpoint. The effect would be to create a non-Christian forum within Christian Forums.

OB

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 18, 2022

Occams Barber said:
I'm not sure what you mean by USP?

Unique Selling Point. IOW, what does it give members that quoted replying to posts doesn't?

Occams Barber said:
The justification for not giving us access to 'Comment' appears to be technical. Unlike 'Reply' which can discriminate between Christian and non-Christian posts, access to 'Comment' is all or nothing.

Since CF doesn't want to allow non-Christians to have access to Christian Only forums, the decision was to not allow non-Christians to use the 'Comment' facility.

We are now seeing the resultant confusion.

Yes, I see the problem, I'm just wondering what problem 'Comment' is solving...

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 18, 2022

Kylie said:
Or just remove that function for everyone? I've only seen it used a handful of times, it seems awkward and clunky (how do you make a reply to such a comment?), it provides no functionality that can't also be achieved by simply replying to the post, and we got along just fine without it for years.

This ↑

FrumiousBandersnatch · Dec 18, 2022

Estrid said:
Overapplication of global warming theory
Is to be expected. Plate tectonics, evolution,
any major theoretical advance gets the same
treatment. EVertything is coz evolution,

"Climate change" is the new paradigm, aso
if the petunias bloom early, well, that's
climate change.
Perhaps bird wings have evolved in
synch with climate change, but it's the kind
of claim that makes eyes roll among the
people who don't give " climate change"
total unreserved Truth status.

Yes - the change in wing ratio may be down to climate change, whether an increase, a decrease, or both - it depends on the specific context. Unless you know the significant reasons for a particular wing ratio, e.g. migration, and you can demonstrate that climate change has influenced those in a direction consistent with the observed wing ratio change, it's speculation.

Migratory birds in North America are shrinking as their wings get bigger. Climate change is to blame

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