Met. Jonah of the OCA on American jurisdictional unity

[Joshua G.]

That was interesting. I still see a huge difference between the Catholic model which has universal control and this model which does not at all. Don't get me wrong, I find what the EP wants problematic at best (as long as I truly understand what he wants. So far I have only heard this through third-hand sources, although I don't imagine any of it is simply made up). I guess I will put it this way. Teh Catholic model completely ceases to be once even ONE other bishop has sole authority over his jurisdiction, no matter how small. The Catholic model is unique and unorthodox because there there is not ONE part of the Canonical Catholic Church which he does not have ultimate authority over (even if it's not exercised). The moment the pope concedes complete control to the Bishop of nowheresville Kentucky over his small village is the moment Universal Jurisdiction has any relevance to real power.

 

[Michael G]

Interfax: Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play specialrole in Orthodoxy

Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play specialrole in Orthodoxy

MOSCOW. April 10 (Interfax) - Bishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk, thehead of the Moscow Patriarchate's external church relations department,has criticized the Constantinople Patriarchate's intention to controlall church communities within the Orthodox diaspora. "I see the situation in the inter-Orthodox relations surroundingthe Constantinople Patriarchate's claim to have some special role in theOrthodox Church as one of the key challenges today," Bishop Hilarionsaid at a press conference at the Interfax main office in Moscow onFriday. "What is happening is in fact an attempt to impose a model existingin the Catholic Church on the Orthodox Church to have as centralizedchurch power as possible, with one bishop leading it as the head of theEcumenical Church," he said. "There has never been such a model in the Orthodox tradition,"Bishop Hilarion said. He doubted it that "we are entitled to revise ourteaching about the Church." The leading hierarchs of the Constantinople Patriarchate arecalling for revising the principle of primacy in the Orthodox world,Bishop Hilarion said. This model presumes that the ConstantinoplePatriarchate "should administer all the churches within the so-calleddiaspora," that is, that all the communities outside the borders of thehistorical canonic national churches should be within Constantinople'sjurisdiction, he said. Bishop Hilarion said this issue will be discussed at an inter-Orthodox conference in June.

You never thought you would hear me saying this, but now I am saying this alot: GOD BLESS THE PATRIARCH OF MOSCOW!!!

 

[Michael G]

Interfax: Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play specialrole in Orthodoxy

Moscow Patriarchate disagrees with Constantinople desire to play specialrole in Orthodoxy

MOSCOW. April 10 (Interfax) - Bishop Hilarion of Volokolamsk, thehead of the Moscow Patriarchate's external church relations department,has criticized the Constantinople Patriarchate's intention to controlall church communities within the Orthodox diaspora. "I see the situation in the inter-Orthodox relations surroundingthe Constantinople Patriarchate's claim to have some special role in theOrthodox Church as one of the key challenges today," Bishop Hilarionsaid at a press conference at the Interfax main office in Moscow onFriday. "What is happening is in fact an attempt to impose a model existingin the Catholic Church on the Orthodox Church to have as centralizedchurch power as possible, with one bishop leading it as the head of theEcumenical Church," he said. "There has never been such a model in the Orthodox tradition,"Bishop Hilarion said. He doubted it that "we are entitled to revise ourteaching about the Church." The leading hierarchs of the Constantinople Patriarchate arecalling for revising the principle of primacy in the Orthodox world,Bishop Hilarion said. This model presumes that the ConstantinoplePatriarchate "should administer all the churches within the so-calleddiaspora," that is, that all the communities outside the borders of thehistorical canonic national churches should be within Constantinople'sjurisdiction, he said. Bishop Hilarion said this issue will be discussed at an inter-Orthodox conference in June.

For the record, I am NOT part of the diaspora because no one in my family ever was Orthodox prior to my conversion (and the same of my wife's family prior to her conversion) and thus no matter what the EP says he is not my leader. Metropolitan JONAH is and I stand behind what my leader has to say about the papish plans of the EP!

 

[Joshua G.]

Don't worry Michael. It would never happen. It seems he is looking to have a stronger and more permanent grip on that which he already has and it seems like the TRULY disputed territories are on the Eastern/western Europe border like Estonia and such. I don't think he feels he has a chance at taking over the OCA. The only reason he refuses to officially recognize it is because then he will have painted himself into a corner where he will have to hand his American parishes over.

 

[buzuxi02]

The EP has to get this neo-papalism out of his head. Juridisdictional disunity in this country is being further fueled by the EP thru his very own actions. There are a number of ever-growing juridictions in America all under the EP with their own bishops and there own independant diocese. Im talking about the Caraptho-russians who have their own bishop (which are parishes of all american converts that should belong to the OCA) , theres the ukranian churches with their own bishops, theres the albanian parishes with their own bishop, then theres the GOA, all the bishps of these churches answer to the EP but not to each other, completely seperate entities.
The official website of St Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery in NYC claims that all canonical juridictions in America that do not fall under one of the old world patriarchs or autocephalous churches belong to the EP (i wonder if the OCA is familiar with this).
Oh by the way St Irene's monastery is another independant church with their own bishop inclusing a number of dependant greek parishes that have no ties to the GOA but answer directly to the EP instead.

 

[Michael G]

The EP has to get this neo-papalism out of his head. Juridisdictional disunity in this country is being further fueled by the EP thru his very own actions. There are a number of ever-growing juridictions in America all under the EP with their own bishops and there own independant diocese. Im talking about the Caraptho-russians who have their own bishop (which are parishes of all american converts that should belong to the OCA) , theres the ukranian churches with their own bishops, theres the albanian parishes with their own bishop, then theres the GOA, all the bishps of these churches answer to the EP but not to each other, completely seperate entities.
The official website of St Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery in NYC claims that all canonical juridictions in America that do not fall under one of the old world patriarchs or autocephalous churches belong to the EP (i wonder if the OCA is familiar with this).
Oh by the way St Irene's monastery is another independant church with their own bishop inclusing a number of dependant greek parishes that have no ties to the GOA but answer directly to the EP instead.

If that is what it takes to bring about the once existent unity of Orthodox in North America then let the EP be as papist as he wants. He will soon find all Orthodox in North America united under one primate and he won't be able to do a thing about it.

 

[Joshua G.]

got him!

 

[Anhelyna]

Latest news

News and Events - The Orthodox Church in America

 

[Michael G]

Latest news

News and Events - The Orthodox Church in America

God has blessed the OCA with a truly holy monk as our Primate!!!

 

[Michael G]

Not worth saying.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Latest news

News and Events - The Orthodox Church in America

God Bless his Eminence.

 

[Joshua G.]

Wow. That's what we need. Bishops who can admit their wrongs. That is a true example to us all. God bless His Eminence!

Joshua

 

[Michael G]

What I do not see happening is the priest who started the current controversy appologizing for his highly upsetting comments.

 

[Joshua G.]

Fortunately His Holiness is not concerned about that but about moving dialogue along in love and brotherhood.

 

[E.C.]

Let the bishops hash it over. The reason for many everlasting disputes has been because individuals on all sides could not admit their wrongs.

Wrong-admitting is typically the best way to start talks over. That and forgiveness.

 

[Macarius]

What I do not see happening is the priest who started the current controversy appologizing for his highly upsetting comments.

Yes, but I do respect Met. Jonah for not making his repentance contingent on others.

Aside from the comment about "foreign despots" I found Met. Jonah's speech to be very charitable. In particular, his open request to have a workable synod without having to immediately deal with the jurisdictional issue seemed like a great first step towards real unity. His respect for the diversity of Orthodoxy also showed through, and when contrasted with the uncharitable charicature of American Orthodoxy painted by the priest who spoke at Holy Cross (on behalf of the EP)...

Upon reading both the priest's speech and Jonah's, I was struck by how much Jonah's centered on the Gospel message of universality and the affirmation of the genuine Orthodox present in this country. In contrast, the priest dealt with legalistic issues and pressed the spread of Hellenism. Between the two, the priest did far more character assassination and charicaturization.

Still, this is very much Met. Jonah as I know him; his apology is sincere, as were his comments about unity.

 

[nikolayalexandroff]

On the other hand, I believe, all Orthodox Christians throughout the world must support EP in his struggle for survival.

 

[Macarius]

Absolutely and without question. Christian love demands nothing less.

The only thing I found theologically disagreeable in the priest's speech was his interpretation of canon 28 and association of ALL Western Orthodox Christians as "barbarians" and "diaspora."

I'm doubtless very bias, but I also live here in the US, and I don't see a diaspora. I see a mission. There are certainly immigrants, and our parishes need to support and minister to them, but we are also called to minister to the indigenous American populations (including the 2nd and 3rd generation children of immigrants from all ethnicities).

The priest's defining us all as diaspora, and then claiming that the word "barbarian" in canon 28 = all those in diaspora (so now we're barbarians), was combined with a dangerously papist interpretation of primacy to contend a universal jurisdiction for the EP.

I don't think that's what the EP believes. Perhaps he does; I know he interprets canon 28 of Chalcedon as giving him jurisdiction over the "diaspora" - but the papal leanings could be mis-spoken or unique to this particular priest.

Regardless, a disagreement over the meaning of a canon, or a lack of tact on the part of a particular speaker (be it Jonah or this priest, or the EP himself), should never compromise our love for one another in Christ our Lord. This isn't a question of power (or rather, it shouldn't be), nor of legalism, but one of LOVE. We're all on the same side here.

What is going to be best for the mission of the gospel in those nations not traditionally Orthodox? That should be our only guiding question. That mission of the gospel includes those who immigrate here from traditional Orthodox countries, but also the surrounding communities.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, but I do respect Met. Jonah for not making his repentance contingent on others.

Aside from the comment about "foreign despots" I found Met. Jonah's speech to be very charitable. In particular, his open request to have a workable synod without having to immediately deal with the jurisdictional issue seemed like a great first step towards real unity. His respect for the diversity of Orthodoxy also showed through, and when contrasted with the uncharitable charicature of American Orthodoxy painted by the priest who spoke at Holy Cross (on behalf of the EP)...

Upon reading both the priest's speech and Jonah's, I was struck by how much Jonah's centered on the Gospel message of universality and the affirmation of the genuine Orthodox present in this country. In contrast, the priest dealt with legalistic issues and pressed the spread of Hellenism. Between the two, the priest did far more character assassination and charicaturization.

Still, this is very much Met. Jonah as I know him; his apology is sincere, as were his comments about unity.

I agree with you about Met JONAH, he needs a HUGE fan club. He is simply one awesome bishop!!!

 

[Protoevangel]

Aside from the comment about "foreign despots" I found Met. Jonah's speech to be very charitable.

"Aside from"?

despot

1 a: a Byzantine emperor or prince b: a bishop or patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church c: an Italian hereditary prince or military leader during the Renaissance
2 a: a ruler with absolute power and authority b: a person exercising power tyrannically

1. Even a secular reference recognizes that it is proper use of the term despot to address "a bishop or patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church" as such.
2. I have read that in the Greek, the priest is addressed by the deacon as despot.
3. We even refer to some of our Saints as Despots in their titles (Saint Stefan, Despot of Serbia, October 9, for example).

So, given the above facts, why would we automatically assume that Metropolitan JONAH must have meant something less than charitable when speaking of foreign despots, referring to an Orthodox Bishop who is properly and truly a despot in the best sense of the word?



By the way, I am not OCA, but I absolutely LOVED every word of Metropolitan JONAH's homily. I was also moved by his humble concession to those less charitable than he.