Messianic Judaism

yonah_mishael · Oct 4, 2011

I'm glad to see folks mentioning that they're Gentiles. I think people tend to hide that or pretend that they're Jewish. It's an interesting phenomenon, but I'm glad that you guys are beyond that.

ChavaK · Oct 4, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
I'm glad to see folks mentioning that they're Gentiles. I think people tend to hide that or pretend that they're Jewish. It's an interesting phenomenon, but I'm glad that you guys are beyond that.

anisavta · Oct 4, 2011

ChavaK said:
What do you consider in a "Jewish way"?
Only things that existed in the time of Jesus, or
those things that have developed since then?

I would say a "Jewish way" is acknowledging that Torah is important and not thrown out. Taking seriously His commands regarding Sabbath, kashrut, festivals. Using the ancient prayers.

yedida · Oct 4, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
I'm glad to see folks mentioning that they're Gentiles. I think people tend to hide that or pretend that they're Jewish. It's an interesting phenomenon, but I'm glad that you guys are beyond that.

I don't think the majority of folks here, not the regulars anyway, like to give false impressions. That would be plain dishonesty - not a good trait for those carrying Hashem's name.
The Jews are prophecy fulfilled and in process but so are the gentiles!! We just answered the call a bit later, that's all.

Devri · Oct 4, 2011

bythegraceofgodgoi said:
I find you folks fascinating. You are perhaps the most true and direct heirs to Christ Yahshua's teachings and ministries - did he not come, after all, to (among other reasons) reform Judaism? I think that Messianic Jews represent the realization of this intent. What do you think? If I had my way I'd be a "Jew for Jesus". I've been thinking that to accomplish this goal I might convert to Judaism and then back to Christianity!

If you ever taste the sweetness that is found in getting back to your Hebrew roots you will most likely never want to return to Christianity.

yedida · Oct 4, 2011

Devri said:
If you ever taste the sweetness that is found in getting back to your Hebrew roots you will most likely never want to return to Christianity.

yonah_mishael · Oct 5, 2011

Devri said:
If you ever taste the sweetness that is found in getting back to your Hebrew roots you will most likely never want to return to Christianity.

But where does a Gentile have Hebrew roots? I don't understand the whole "Hebrew Roots" movement.

janwoG · Oct 5, 2011

To Yonah Mishael
But where does a Gentile have Hebrew roots? I don't understand the whole "Hebrew Roots" movement.
In Rav Yeshua!

Study The Manual · Oct 5, 2011

anisavta said:
Judaism looks great - lots of food, dancing, singing yada yada but it's no different in it's inconsistencies than Christianity. Same people - different outfits.

I have to agree there. I really want to go into detail, but I think that would be too negative. Just research the history of both Christianity (Constantine) and Orthodox Judaism (The Pharisees).

Two great books to get started on for anyone really wanting to "convert" outside of Christianity are, "Boundary Stones," by Aaron Ebb and, "The Hebrew Yeshua vs. The Greek Jesus," by Nehemiah Gordon. It grants a clear picture of what converting really would mean...from a Messianic perspective.

Study The Manual · Oct 5, 2011

anisavta said:
I would say a "Jewish way" is acknowledging that Torah is important and not thrown out. Taking seriously His commands regarding Sabbath, kashrut, festivals. Using the ancient prayers.

Technically, Kosher is not in the Torah (do not boil a kid in it's mothers milk refers to a Caananite fertility ritual), that is Rabbinic, along with most of the Sephardic prayers and blessings such as the Washing of the Hands...the end of the blessing, "Who commanded us with the Washing of the Hands." There is no such Scipture to back that ritual up. It is common sense to wash your hands before a meal.

***I am not saying any of this to start an argument, but only saying this so that people who are looking into Messianic Judaism are not forced into Oral Torah without doing their research first.

yonah_mishael said:
But where does a Gentile have Hebrew roots? I don't understand the whole "Hebrew Roots" movement.

Hebrew Roots: Yeshua was a Hebrew, spoke/taught in Hebrew and followed Torah. Therefore, true followers of Yeshua get out of the bonds of Christianity and back to Torah the way Yeshua taught. There is no reason not to go back to Torah as the oldest know language uncovered to date is an Ancient form of Hebrew...the language of HaShem's chosen people. I don't think that is a coinsidence.

Going a step further, the smart ones will study the roots of Christianity and see where the whole idea of "The Trinity" came from and also where the idea that "Jesus is god" came from. Those ideas popped up after the destruction of the second Temple and from some very obvious historical people who were not against slavery and controlling the mind-how people think.

***Again, this is not to start an argument, but rather to get people who are new to the idea of Messianic Judaism to do their own research and make their own decisions NOT based on someone else's opinion.

anisavta · Oct 5, 2011

Technically, Kosher is not in the Torah (do not boil a kid in it's mothers milk refers to a Caananite fertility ritual), that is Rabbinic, along with most of the Sephardic prayers and blessings such as the Washing of the Hands...the end of the blessing, "Who commanded us with the Washing of the Hands." There is no such Scipture to back that ritual up. It is common sense to wash your hands before a meal.

Kosher as found in Leviticus chapter 11 and Deuteronomy chapter 14.

Desert Rose · Oct 5, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
I'm glad to see folks mentioning that they're Gentiles. I think people tend to hide that or pretend that they're Jewish. It's an interesting phenomenon, but I'm glad that you guys are beyond that.

mindboggling i'd say... reminds me of the old joke about a young black gentleman, back in the 1940's, dressed in suit and tie, sitting on a park bench on saturday and reading Torah. An old jew with a cane slowly walks by, stops by him :" Young man, sorry for asking , but is being black not enough trouble for you, you want to be jewish?"

yonah, you are bit removed from the christian culture.There is some romanticizing of a combed, pretty, touristbrochure verison of Israel going on, big time. To many its currently fashionable to love it and try to imitate jewish traditions, thus resembling a modern christian version of StarTrek fans. They are fascinated with everything blue an white, just like the Dallas Cowboy's fans.

Mostly its religionists' palabra, but it works. I support it with a poker face, God be my helper, why not help Israel economy at impressionable people's expence ? always point out to the fans the importance of buying israeli products.

But how did those pastors do it, i wonder? If ministry of absorbtion had that much impact, their fight for toshavim hozrim woudl be more sucessfull

Desert Rose · Oct 5, 2011

to clarify, seem like there been some mutual misunderstandings here recently: I am making fun of jew obsessed christians, to whom, i believe its all a temporary fad. MJ , i truly hope , are not in it for the show. Well, at least we, jew-flavored Christians and MJs that post here are very serious!

anisavta · Oct 5, 2011

It's the living there that somehow tinges the romance. Those big hotels with the food buffets can make it look so good. It's the shleping four heavy grocery bags up three flights of stairs on a "warm" humid Tel Aviv day - every day. It's calling the repair guy and them telling you they'll come - when they can. It's either having enough money for rent or food - but not both. And in Sderot it's hoping you or your child makes it to the bomb shelter in time.

rsduncan · Oct 5, 2011

I suppose that there is a certain mystique in walking the ground that the heroes of the Jewish, MJ/G and Christian faiths trod millennia ago. I have to admit to a desire to go to Mount Horeb because it makes me think of Moshe Rabbeinu, even if that mountain is not the actual place where he received G-d's Law.

How many people have witnessed episodes of Jerusalem Syndrome? How often does that happen???

visionary · Oct 5, 2011

The tablet that Moses broke.. I wonder if the fragments could still be found.

ChavaK · Oct 5, 2011

rsduncan said:
How many people have witnessed episodes of Jerusalem Syndrome?

Once. There used to be a guy that would be outside the Yaffa gate that
would dress up like King David and carry a harp. He was convinced he was
King David, it wasn't just a tourist shtick.
Only saw him once, years ago. I understand he was a visitor and had been
there for a couple of months. When people return to their
home country they get over the JS in a matter of a couple of weeks.

How often does that happen???

Don't know, but apparently it's not totally rare.

anisavta · Oct 5, 2011

I was at the Carmel shuk and this guy dressed in a long cape got on his bike which was adorned with flowing fabric. He had the long hair and beard thing going on. Not sure if he was David or Jesus.

yonah_mishael · Oct 5, 2011

Study The Manual said:
Hebrew Roots: Yeshua was a Hebrew, spoke/taught in Hebrew and followed Torah. Therefore, true followers of Yeshua get out of the bonds of Christianity and back to Torah the way Yeshua taught.

How do you know that Jesus spoke Hebrew? I'm pretty certain that he spoke Aramaic. He wasn't from Jerusalem. He was from Galilee, and the Galileans certainly didn't speak Hebrew.

I understand that Jesus had Hebrew roots and was Jewish, but that doesn't mean that non-Jews have Jewish roots. Essentially, if you followed the teachings of Plato, that doesn't mean that you would have Greek roots. It just means that you would need to understand the Greek way of thinking in order to understand the author's arguments - not that you would have to start living and walking like the author did. I think the same thing is going on here you don't need to become like the Jews of 2000 years ago (which I would dare you to do, by the way!) in order to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Study The Manual said:
There is no reason not to go back to Torah as the oldest know language uncovered to date is an Ancient form of Hebrew...the language of HaShem's chosen people. I don't think that is a coinsidence.

Where did you get that idea? There are certainly languages older than Hebrew.

Study The Manual said:
Going a step further, the smart ones will study the roots of Christianity and see where the whole idea of "The Trinity" came from and also where the idea that "Jesus is god" came from. Those ideas popped up after the destruction of the second Temple and from some very obvious historical people who were not against slavery and controlling the mind-how people think.

A good friend of mine, Thom Stark, recently published a book about biblical inerrancy, called The Human Faces of God (link). He's currently working on his second book, one regarding the New Testament's position on the deity of Jesus. I read a pre-published version of his first book, and he's promised to let me have a crack at confronting his second, playing the devil's advocate, offering corrections and criticism, etc.

I'm not sure why I'm telling you this, but the deity of Jesus is soon going to be an issue that I'll read more into. As far as I've been told until now, the New Testament does indeed teach that Jesus is somehow divine in a special way, at least part of what God is. I might end up rethinking that eventually with reading this book, but I'm still uncertain what the position of Messianic Judaism is. If I asked a Baptist about the Trinity, they would all agree about it. If I asked a Oneness Pentecostal, they would all agree that there's only one God and profess something like Modalism.

Is it just the case that MJ is still young in terms of the modern movement and hasn't come to a consensus, or will there continue (do you all think) to be disagree even in the most basic of doctrinal issues among MJ adherents?

yonah_mishael · Oct 5, 2011

Desert Rose said:
yonah, you are bit removed from the christian culture.There is some romanticizing of a combed, pretty, touristbrochure verison of Israel going on, big time. To many its currently fashionable to love it and try to imitate jewish traditions, thus resembling a modern christian version of StarTrek fans. They are fascinated with everything blue an white, just like the Dallas Cowboy's fans.

What an interesting comparison! Thanks!!

Messianic Judaism

הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

Never Forget!

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

Devri

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Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

My heart leads me to Messianic Judaism

Karaite or Rabbinic...interesting choice.

Karaite or Rabbinic...interesting choice.

Never Forget!

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Never Forget!

Veteran

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

Never Forget!

הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

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