Messianic Jew (OPEN)

[Snowy]

Can a Christian that has no Jewish heritage become a Messianic?

If so what practices would I follow and where would I start?

 

[Desperate4Him2]

I hope so, Snowy. To my fairly uncertain knowledge, I have no Jewish blood. Except spiritual, perhaps!

When I became aware of Messianic beliefs, I began praying about what I should observe in my life. Holy Spirit began with what I ate (now no pig, shrimp, crab - my special favs!). Last spring I began celebrating Erev Shabbat by lighting candles and reserving Shabbat for the things of YHVH instead of the things of D4H2. I read the parasha every week and attend a parasha study group. I'm looking for a group to worship with. It's been a process - about 1-1/2 years and I'm just now beginning to celebrate the feasts and festivals.

Is there a congregation or study group near you?

 

[AbiYah]

Absolutely anyone can become Messianic.

To become Jewish though; you either are born; or you convert.

The only people doing conversions are the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Judaisms - not Messianic Judaism.

If you already have faith in Y'shua; you need only then obey His commandments.

No need to change ethnicity; G-d says even those of the nations who obey His voice and commands is blessed.

"Many are called but few are the chosen"

 

[Snowy]

When I became aware of Messianic beliefs, I began praying about what I should observe in my life. Holy Spirit began with what I ate (now no pig, shrimp, crab - my special favs!).

The next day as Cornelius’s messengers were nearing the town, Peter went up on the flat roof to pray. It was about noon, and he was hungry. But while a meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw the sky open, and something like a large sheet was let down by its four corners. In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles, and birds. Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; kill and eat them." “No, Lord,” Peter declared. “I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean." But the voice spoke again: “Do not call something unclean if G-d has made it clean.” Acts 10:9-15

Do not destroy the work of G-d for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Romans 14:20

G-d says all food is clean so why do you worry about what you eat unless it causes someone else to stumble which I really don't understand how it could. If G-d said something is ok to eat then doesn't that make it ok as what happened in Acts?

Last spring I began celebrating Erev Shabbat by lighting candles and reserving Shabbat for the things of YHVH instead of the things of D4H2. I read the parasha every week and attend a parasha study group. I'm looking for a group to worship with. It's been a process - about 1-1/2 years and I'm just now beginning to celebrate the feasts and festivals.

What is D4H2?

Is there a congregation or study group near you?

I really have no clue if there is a Messianic Jew group near me.

 

[Snowy]

Absolutely anyone can become Messianic.

To become Jewish though; you either are born; or you convert.

The only people doing conversions are the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Judaisms - not Messianic Judaism.

If you already have faith in Y'shua; you need only then obey His commandments.

No need to change ethnicity; G-d says even those of the nations who obey His voice and commands is blessed.

"Many are called but few are the chosen"

What exactly is Messianic?

What are the customs and traditions that should be followed?

Do Messianic believe we live in the NT days?

Why do I feel so drawn (interested) to Jewish customs and beliefs?

 

[Desperate4Him2]

The next day as Cornelius’s messengers were nearing the town, Peter went up on the flat roof to pray. It was about noon, and he was hungry. But while a meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw the sky open, and something like a large sheet was let down by its four corners. In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles, and birds. Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; kill and eat them." “No, Lord,” Peter declared. “I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean." But the voice spoke again: “Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.” Acts 10:9-15

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Romans 14:20

God says all food is clean so why do you worry about what you eat unless it causes someone else to stumble which I really don't understand how it could. If God said something is ok to eat then doesn't that make it ok as what happened in Acts?





What is D4H2?



I really have no clue if there is a Messianic Jew group near me.

D4H2 is my CF id!

Snowy, Peter explained his vision later as being permitted to enter gentile's homes and even eat with them which was not permitted by the rabbinical fence around Torah. Peter did not say that it had anything to do with food (well, except for eating with gentiles).

I was a long time coming to the conclusion that YHVH blesses those who keep biblically kosher. Right now, if I ate pork or shrimp or crab (which all still make my mouth water), I would be in the bathroom looking for the Immodium AD within several hours. It took a while for me to make the connection with eating a BLT, but once I knew that it was not in my best interests, the Holy Spirit hounded me until I gave it up. Currently, I eat the occasional piece of bacon but I'm guaranteed to have problems later in the day! Just my experience, Snowy. Nothing more.

 

[Desperate4Him2]

What exactly is Messianic?

What are the customs and traditions that should be followed?

Do Messianic believe we live in the NT days?

Why do I feel so drawn (interested) to Jewish customs and beliefs?

You are drawn the way the rest of us have been drawn. Haven't a clue why, but it's a sure thing that once the idea of a Jewish Jesus enters your mind, He'll not let you alone until you capitulate! You will be so blessed!

There are several wonderful books about Messianic beliefs from First Fruits of Zion at this site: http://ffoz.org/

 

[AbiYah]

What exactly is Messianic?

This will have a different answer to every person you ask. It is just the same as asking me "What defines Judaism?" or "What defines Jewish Music?"
There are so many flavors and styles; there is no one definitive. There are even Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi Messianics... those who are Arabs worshipping as Messianic; and people all over the world regardless of being Jewish or not that are Messianic.
The whole goal is to Obey and worship G-d out of our love of Him. But that will manifest in many ways and forms as we area all coming on the path from different backgrounds and have our own baggage that we carry.

What are the customs and traditions that should be followed?

I would start by asking you to look at our FAQ, and also trying to look at www.biblicalholidays.com that is a good place to begin.

Do Messianic believe we live in the NT days?

I am not sure what you mean; but with further clarification I am sure I can answer better.

Why do I feel so drawn (interested) to Jewish customs and beliefs?

Because you believe in Y'shua and our faith was divorced from it's roots. It's time that the harvest is drawing near; and G-d is calling us steadily back to his flock and his root.

He is the shepherd, those who are his sheep hear his voice. I am sure everyone if they listen long and hard enough will hear the call.

 

[Snowy]

D4H2 is my CF id!

Snowy, Peter explained his vision later as being permitted to enter gentile's homes and even eat with them which was not permitted by the rabbinical fence around Torah. Peter did not say that it had anything to do with food (well, except for eating with gentiles).

I was a long time coming to the conclusion that YHVH blesses those who keep biblically kosher. Right now, if I ate pork or shrimp or crab (which all still make my mouth water), I would be in the bathroom looking for the Immodium AD within several hours. It took a while for me to make the connection with eating a BLT, but once I knew that it was not in my best interests, the Holy Spirit hounded me until I gave it up. Currently, I eat the occasional piece of bacon but I'm guaranteed to have problems later in the day! Just my experience, Snowy. Nothing more.

OK so your saying nothing from a pig, or certain seafood. What about chickens and cows?

 

[Athaliamum]

Can a Christian that has no Jewish heritage become a Messianic Jew?

If so what practices would I follow and where would I start?

The others have answered the first part quite well, there are no pre-requisites to becoming messianic.

But where to start....
Baby steps. I would start by gaining a indepth knowledge of the Torah and it's precepts. It is easy to do when we know the why. It also means that you are less likely to get confused over rabbinical practices vs Torah only practices because you have the measuring stick to weigh and judge.
A really good resources to do this is this website:
http://www.maretsoftware.com/torahtips/account/login.asp
It will take you through some basic foundations, then the 613 commandments and explain their past applications, who they relate to, the spirit behind the commandment and whether it is still to be done and how you could do that. Apart from his segment and interpretation on Tellifin, I would say that he is pretty spot on.

I would also suggest possibly getting the Complete Jewish Bible or the Jewish New Testament by David Stern if you don't already have one. It changes alot of the names of people and places back to the Hebrew to help give context. eg. Law=Torah, Jesus=Yeshua, Lord=Adonai etc.

I hope that helps.

 

[AbiYah]

the passage here is about something other than food. The "kill and eat" is "Sacrifice and eat" - there is a big problem sacrificing things that G-d didn't ask to be sacrificed; and eating what is not food per G-d.

Healthwise and covenantwise.

The passage is about mankind and how mankind is perceived.

I think Athaliamum posted somewhere on here recently about the passage where mankind is likened to some of these animals mentioned in the "sheet" - it was very good. Maybe she will come along and link this soon.

 

[Snowy]

I am not sure what you mean; but with further clarification I am sure I can answer better.

Sorry NT means New Testament. I understand the Jews only use the NT because they don't believe in Jesus being the son of G-d because they think he still hasn't came yet. So, what I was wanting to know was do Messianic use both the OT and NT but believe that these days are the NT days and the laws of the OT have been written over so to speak by the NT?

Because you believe in Y'shua and our faith was divorced from it's roots. It's time that the harvest is drawing near; and G-d is calling us steadily back to his flock and his root.

He is the shepherd, those who are his sheep hear his voice. I am sure everyone if they listen long and hard enough will hear the call.

What do you mean faith was divorced from it's roots?

 

[AbiYah]

here is what is food Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14.

These are the same clean and unclean at Noah's ark... the same clean and unclean after Paul.

A good book is put out by Firstfruits of Zion (www.ffoz.org) called "Holy Cow" - check it out

 

[Desperate4Him2]

OK so your saying nothing from a pig, or certain seafood. What about chickens and cows?

Chicken and cows and turkey are good! There are other requirements, but that's for another day.

We should make it clear that you are saved by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus/Yeshua, not by molding your life to the Torah. But Yeshua said "if you love me, you will follow my commandments". So now it's clear to me that after I was saved (not that long ago - not yet 6 years) that Abba Father has more for me than what the Christian Church offers. Blessings abound the more I conform my mind and body to the Torah!

I'm currently using The Scriptures for my Bible translation and it makes everything so clear!

 

[Athaliamum]

Cow and Chicken meat are fine as long as they are killed properly, which often they are not.

They shoot a metal prong into the cow's brain to stun it so that they can cut it's throat, but many times then not this prong kills them, meaning that they blood is not drained fromt the cow. This is not only a Torah observant issue but it should be a christian issue in connection with Acts 15:29 which says we should abstain from blood, that would include eating it. Chicken is normally ok as most of the blood is drained.

Even if it was permissable to eat pig, I wouldn't knowing how they kill them - they basically boil them alive to get the skin off because it's too hard to do once they're dead.

Oh link...just be easier to post it again:

Lets just look at one reference used to explain it's context. The issue with the above verses is that they are written in English which for the most part is a very limiting language. It is best to look at the greek to gain a better understanding of the implication of the verses. In Acts 10:9-5 this is very important.

Acts 10:11
"And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners...

A vessel is a container. Throughout the NT, this word is often used as a reference for the human body as a container for the soul.

Peter says that the vessel was like a great sheet knit at the four corners. Greek for clarification:

mega (large) othonai (linen garment) deo (tied) at the four corners

This is very specific, is not just some giant sheet like a bed sheet - it's particular. The reference to the tied four corners is an important particular that is often missed in the quest to uncontextually prove that all food is ok by God to eat. The particular is this:

Numbers 15:38-39
Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue....

The Israelites created a specific garment in order to fulfill this command - a tallit, a prayer shawl worn by men that has fringes at the corners that are tied in specific ways during prayer.

vs12"Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. "

This verse has been seen before it pervious scripture which gives this one it's context.

“Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith YHVH, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know YHVH.”Hosea 2:16-20

These passages of Hosea are talking about the tribe of Ephraim who have been dispersed into the many nations of the world because of their idolitary, basically being made into gentiles. These people, gentiles, here have been called beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things.


Romans 1:19-25 re-establishes this understanding:
“Because that which may be known of Adonai is manifest in them; for Adonai hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew Adonai, they glorified him not as Adonai, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible Adonai into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore Adonai also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of Adonai into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”

Thus, scripture connects these animals with people who are idolaters. Therefore Peter's vision is of idoliters dressed in a tallit (prayer shawl).

“And [Peter] saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.”
Acts 10:11-13

The word kill here is another bad english translation. The Greek word that is interpreted as kill in the King James is thusia. That word appears repeatedly translated in the Nazarean Codicil as sacrifice or offering.

Therefore a better translation would be:
"And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; sacrifice, and eat.”

It is at this point that he is told to sacrifice and eat. There is only one sacrifice in the scriptures wherein an individual (who was not a priest) was allowed to both sacrifice and eat of the meat from that sacrifice. That sacrifice is called the Zevach Shelamim.

The Zevach Shelamim is also called the Peace Offering or the Fellowship Offering. It was intended to be sacrificed and eaten by the individual who offered it and by others from the believing community. It could not be shared, however, with those who were either unclean or outside of the believing community. In such a case where the Zevach Shelamim was indeed shared with banned individuals, the offering became unclean meat.
This is when Peter objects to eating food that is unclean, in this context, it is not a reversal of God's own kosher mandate.

To put it in further context. Peter is still trying to understand his vision (which kosher-abliterating Christians think they understand straight away without much analysis) when gentiles who are God-fearers (basically in those days Torah observant Gentiles) come to the door. Context.

Later on Peter gives us the meaning of his vision.

“…Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but Adonai hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”
Acts 10:28


There is also a connection between clean and unclean animals and the order of their creation.

 

[Snowy]

And I have to apologize that I keep forgetting to hyphenate G-d's name. I had asked a few months ago why you all did this and am still getting used to it.

 

[Snowy]

Cow and Chicken meat are fine as long as they are killed properly, which often they are not.

They shoot a metal prong into the cow's brain to stun it so that they can cut it's throat, but many times then not this prong kills them, meaning that they blood is not drained fromt the cow. This is not only a Torah observant issue but it should be a christian issue in connection with Acts 15:29 which says we should abstain from blood, that would include eating it. Chicken is normally ok as most of the blood is drained.

So where would I go to get food that is kosher?

 

[AbiYah]

Sorry NT means New Testament. I understand the Jews only use the NT because they don't believe in Jesus being the son of G-d because they think he still hasn't came yet. So, what I was wanting to know was do Messianic use both the OT and NT but believe that these days are the NT days and the laws of the OT have been written over so to speak by the NT?

OK, We are not like the Christians who believe the New covenant replaced the Tanakh or it's observances.

There is a timeframe where the sacrifices are made of our lips, and our lives; but the time is coming where again there is a Temple and sacrifice. There was always grace and salvation; but it was not realized until the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

As our ancestors looked forwards; we look back and forward. Back to our spiritual redemption and forwards to the redemption and rejouvenation of the world.

By divorced from it's roots... I would say read up on Church History.

People decided things were "Too Jewish" and removed themselves from the context of worship and made something different.

 

[AbiYah]

So where would I go to get food that is kosher?

Sometimes your Walmart or a Publix store will have it; sometimes you have to order online or go to a specific store to get it.

Where I will be; I have a special store I have to go to.

 

[Snowy]

I read the parasha every week and attend a parasha study group. I'm looking for a group to worship with. It's been a process - about 1-1/2 years and I'm just now beginning to celebrate the feasts and festivals.

What is the parasha?