Mentorship

[Emjay1985]

Why is it so hard to find respectable godly couples to come alongside younger couples to mentor them in marriage, parenting, and faith?

 

[ValleyGal]

I wonder if older couples have gone through life not really understanding the extent of their own marriage dynamics and what makes their marriage work, and therefore feel perhaps unequipped to mentor. In addition, marriage is really changing along with culture. Most older couples I know (older than me) have more patriarchal or complementarian (still power-imbalanced) marriage ideology, but more and more younger people are becoming more egalitarian in their marriage views. With such different views, it's hard to find those older couples who might be more able to mentor those younger ones with such different beliefs and views.

Mentoring is about a younger couple emulating a mentor couple. While I adore my husband and we have a fantastic marriage, I do not want others to emulate us because we are us, we have our own views on marriage, we are our own unique combo of him/her with all the unique things we both bring to the marriage, good and not-so-good. There is no one out there like us, so there is no one out there who should emulate us - what we do might not work for someone else.

My suggestion is to hire a marriage coach. They help explore what you both bring to the marriage, including worldview and beliefs about marriage, and they ask strategic questions to help you find answers together for your own marriage.

 

[seeingeyes]

Why is it so hard to find respectable godly couples to come alongside younger couples to mentor them in marriage, parenting, and faith?

What exactly is it that you want mentoring in?

 

[LinkH]

You could try going to a cell group or house church that has older couples with strong marriages, get to know them, and then ask.

 

[Emjay1985]

Mentoring is about a younger couple emulating a mentor couple.

I don't think it is about emulating. If a child does baking with their grandmother they're not emulating her and she is not saying that her way of baking is the only right way. She is sharing her hard earned tips and tricks to make baking easier and tastier. The child could learn to bake on their own, through trial and error and a few burns, but they'll learn much faster with their grandmother's advice, guidance, and encouragement. And the child will still end up with their own style of baking.

My mum's parenting style is like trying to steer a car by honking the horn. Yelling, threats, and hitting are her parenting tools. She would throw things across the room in rage and storm out of the house. She would sit all day in her nighty. The house was messy and dirty and we were punished for cleaning or tidying. I can count the hugs and kisses I received from her in a year on one hand. She rejects displays of affection and brushes off kind words and believes people are only kind when they want something. She has told me she is proud of me just once in my life. She is cold and distant because her mother was. Her mother was cold and distant because she was raised by a cold and distant aunt.

My father was firm and fair. He never hit us in anger. He always explained why we were about to be smacked on the hand with his hand. Afterwards he would sit us on his lap and hug us. He had been abandoned by his mother when he was very small. He had been hit wherever with whatever was close, even the jug cord, and he swore to himself they he would never hit his children in anger and never with anything other than his own hand and never anywhere on them other than their hand or their bottom. He worked long antisocial hours but he made time for each of us everyday even though it was only 10-20 minutes per day.

My husband's father would spy on him and his sisters playing and would suddenly appear and hit him hard across the back of the head at the slightest perceived transgression. His father was too busy working and having affairs to spend quality time with his children. His father believed children should be seen and not hear... and preferably not seen. Home-making and child rearing were his wife's responsibility, not his. When he was at home he was not to be expected to do anything. Females and anyone younger than him were expected to submit to him in all things and be subservient to him. I can only remember him raising his voice twice in my life.

My husband's mother is a softly spoken and gentle woman and very hard working. I've never heard her raise her voice or swear in the 19 years I've known her. She had 4 children under 5 years and she managed to keep her home nice and put lovely meals on the table. I've never heard her speak ill of her ex-husband, despite his repeated affairs.

We haven't exactly been equipped with healthy ways of dealing with marriage and parenting. We've done marriage counselling and we've done about 6 parenting courses each so we know the theory but putting it into practice day in and day out is hard.

It seems all around us marriages are breaking down, falling apart, and ending. It seems that everywhere we turn people are resenting their wife/husband or talking bad about them. And when someone does express genuine love for their spouse, it seems society tells them it won't last long. We're becoming increasingly isolated as our countries develop. Instead of talking to a friend about this I'm on the internet venting to people on the other side of the world.

Maybe mentoring was the wrong choice of word.

 

[seeingeyes]

It seems all around us marriages are breaking down, falling apart, and ending. It seems that everywhere we turn people are resenting their wife/husband or talking bad about them. And when someone does express genuine love for their spouse, it seems society tells them it won't last long. We're becoming increasingly isolated as our countries develop. Instead of talking to a friend about this I'm on the internet venting to people on the other side of the world.

Maybe mentoring was the wrong choice of word.

That's the rough stuff right there.

I can tell you this, though: I got quite a head start on this marriage business by having the example of my parents. I had a front row seat to their fights, and I had a front row seat to the forgiveness. They've been married nearly forty years and they still enjoy hanging out together. And it was work. I saw that with my own eyes.

So having a good example (like a mentor, I suppose), won't teach you new tricks on how to deal with trouble, necessarily. You already know all the tricks. All it will show you is that trouble is normal. Marriage is never all butterflies and sunshine because marriage is two very different people with two very different histories and two very different sets of expectations coming together as one.

You two are learning how to love one another, and there are inherent pitfalls that you're going to have to climb out of. Together.

Keep looking for couples that are in it for the long haul. They're around, but they don't advertise. People who have complaints are always much louder than people who have already worked through these issues.

And keep your chin up. My parents both came from day-time-talk-show-worthy horror story homes. They built their own peace and passed it on the best they could. You will too, sister.

God bless

 

[ValleyGal]

A mentor is a teacher, guide, adviser, preceptor. You've already done counselling and parenting courses, but it sounds like you could use someone who will help you set some "smart" goals and help keep you on track and accountable with what you already know. If you can find an accountability partner who would support this every week or two, that would be great. Your pastor might be able to do this, if you're in a small church, or he might recommend an elder couple who would agree to do this for a time. If you're unable, a coach might be a good option.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

We haven't exactly been equipped with healthy ways of dealing with marriage and parenting. We've done marriage counselling and we've done about 6 parenting courses each so we know the theory but putting it into practice day in and day out is hard.

It seems all around us marriages are breaking down, falling apart, and ending. It seems that everywhere we turn people are resenting their wife/husband or talking bad about them. And when someone does express genuine love for their spouse, it seems society tells them it won't last long. We're becoming increasingly isolated as our countries develop. Instead of talking to a friend about this I'm on the internet venting to people on the other side of the world.

Take a look at the part in bold. What would that "look like" for you? If you were to wake up tomorrow, and all of a sudden you and your husband were equipped with healthy ways of dealing with marriage and parenting, how would you know? What kinds of things would be different? Would it be in how you relate to one another? How you spend time together? More personal time to yourself? More effective ways of agreeing on discipline and raising your kids?

And how would you like a 'mentor couple' to help you reach some of these goals? You've said that "putting (theory) into practice is hard". Maybe someone who can help you implement what you've learned and guide you along as you work toward your goals...

Just some thoughts.

 

[Emjay1985]

Okay, after reading your responses I'd like to alter what I said. I guess what I really mean is that I'm finding it hard to find good examples of Godly marriages and Godly parenting in my community. People who are positive and uplifting and inspiring.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Have you honestly never received welcomed advice or guidance from your parents or a friend or somebody else you respect, on any topic? Never been inspired by anyone to be a better person, in any area of your life? Never looked up to anyone in anything at all?

I know marriage and parenting is never going to be all sunshine and roses. I know what I want our marriage to be like. I know what kind of parent I want to be. I know what we have to do to make it a reality. We don't have access to a marriage coach. We live in a town of about 2,000 people. We have about 50 people in our church. The house groups are divided by age and gender. When I said It seems all around us marriages are breaking down, falling apart, and ending. It seems that everywhere we turn people are resenting their wife/husband or talking bad about them." I meant in our church and in our community.

I'm sorry. I can't seem to express myself clearly.

Proverbs 13:20
One who walks with the wise becomes wise, but whoever keeps company with fools only hurts himself.

Proverbs 22: 24, 25
Make no friendship with a man given to anger, nor go with a wrathful man, lest you learn his ways and entangle yourself in a snare.

Proverbs 27: 17
In the same way that iron sharpens iron, a person sharpens the character of his friend.

1 Corinthian 15: 33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

We want to have a good example in our lives.

 

[Shane R]

I feel your frustration. Also, I think what you are looking for is more akin to a role model.

To answer your initial question, my feeling is that few are willing to make the investment in others that a mentorship partnership requires - especially if they are not related. It's hard to find people who will take a genuine interest in another.

 

[HannahT]

Sounds to me like YOU could be the positive influence!

You going out of your way to be good to each other, and to others. To speak in uplifting ways about your spouse, etc.

The fact you have taken steps shows you have the stuff. Remember it doesn't always have to be one extreme or other. Meaning: everyone is miserable or acting like rainbows come out of your behind type of attitude. Life normally is somewhere in the middle, and you have one UP on many people by recognizing things in your life. That is the first step to overcoming after all.

I know for myself? If all I can do is concentrate on the negative that is all I will see. We all get into that place at times. It makes it harder to TRY to change your prospective, and find all the small things that makes you grateful. Learn to accept your limitations of your area - and the population - and look for the things to praise. It does change your outlook, and people tend to underestimate it. Its not a slam, but just acknowledging our human factors.

So, don't look for the 'genuine interest in another' for other people - be the person that does this. It will be awkward at first, but it does grow on you after a while. Been there myself! You might be surprised at how it changes your life.

 

[ValleyGal]

Okay, let me start over, too. I would just like to clarify a little. Are you looking for someone to help you with your marriage, or are you just wanting to keep company with those whose marriage is good, like "birds of a feather flock together"?

Maybe it's a cultural thing.... people where I live don't talk with people about their marriage, and you'd never know whose marriage is in trouble versus whose are strong. If people want to talk about their marriage, they go to a marriage counsellor or coach. So I'm a little confused as to how you'd know all those marriages around you are in trouble, and I'm confused about what you are looking for.

Most coaching is done over Skype, so if you have access to the internet, you have access to a coach. You already know what you want your marriage to be like, and a coach just comes alongside you and work towards that goal and helps you address the barriers you face when reaching that goal. That does not sound like something you need at this point, but if it is, I can help you find one.

If it's just about finding good friends with good marriages to hang around with, that might be a little harder, especially if people are so open about their marriage woes. It sounds like your whole community could use a good marriage workshop that would give them the tools to invest good into their marriage and keep out the bad/negative.

 

[seeingeyes]

Maybe it's a cultural thing.... people where I live don't talk with people about their marriage, and you'd never know whose marriage is in trouble versus whose are strong. If people want to talk about their marriage, they go to a marriage counsellor or coach. So I'm a little confused as to how you'd know all those marriages around you are in trouble, and I'm confused about what you are looking for.

I see the same thing. Though certain people complain about their marriages a lot. (I'm sure that's a cultural thing, too, depending on the crowd you hang out with.)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone who has been married longer than two months come up to me and say, "My marriage is going just wonderfully these days!"

 

[mkgal1]

We want to have a good example in our lives.

Chip Ingram actually has a series called Good to Great in God's Eyes, and part of that is pursuing great people (so you're intuitively following what he's suggesting). He says, "The road to greatness is not walked alone. In fact, greatness is never achieved in a vacuum. It is forged in community." He suggests that if you don't have people immediately around you, you can read blogs, books, teachings and find out whom you feel led to sort of "hitch your wagon to" (my expression---not his).

Here are the notes & transcripts to that series (the free videos may be on You Tube.....I know you don't have to purchase in order to view them):

Scripture Reference Search Results

ETA--I think this is where you can watch the whole series (if you want to): http://livingontheedge.org/group-studies/browse-all-studies/good-to-great-in-god's-eyes

Transcript: http://livingontheedge.org/broadcast/pursue-great-people-part-1/daily-radio#.U6sPwfldWSo

The principle I want you to get is this timeless axiom: we become most like those we admire and those with whom we interact most frequently. Take it to the bank. You will be like whoever you admire and whoever you hang with.

If you want to move from good to great in God’s eyes, you long for your heart to be more tender; you want to be more Godly; you want to pray the way that we talked about; you want your motives to be what God wants them to be; you long to become in God’s eyes the kind of person with the kind of courage and boldness who would say Lord, I’d like to sit at your right hand. I want to be a great Christian.

Practice number three: pursue great people. Pursue. I didn’t say hang around. Go after them. Find a great Christian and pursue them. Hang out with them. The key text for this one is Proverbs 13:20. “He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fool suffers harm.” I have heard it quoted: show me your friends and I’ll show you your future. It’s true, isn’t it? Show me your friends. That’s why as parents it’s critical you know who your kids hang out with and what their attitudes are ‘cause they’re going to become just like the people they hang with.

Now here’s what I’d like to ask. Why pursue great people? We’ve got the basics here, but why. I want to give you a biblical foundation for pursuing great people. The first reason is God’s word is emphatic about the company that we keep. 1 Corinthians 15:33 says, “Do not be misled. Bad company corrupts good character.” You put one rotten apple in a basket with good apples and the rotting apple will do what? It’ll rot the others.

Notice what it says in Hebrews 13:7 ‘Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you.’ First remember, then consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Literally we get our word mimic. Mimic their faith.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone who has been married longer than two months come up to me and say, "My marriage is going just wonderfully these days!"

That makes me think of something I heard from a single (like...'unmarried" single) comedian say the other day. It was something like, "People keep asking me if I'm ever going to get married. I honestly don't know. It's not like those that I know are selling it very well. When I ask my newly married friends how their marriage is going.....how they like being married....their response is typically something like 'oh.....you know.....we're making it---but it's so HARD....marriage is WORK' ".

 

[Autumnleaf]

There are few examples of Godly marriage to be found in society. The ones who remember and lived by such standards, WWII and older Americans, are dying off. The baby boomers were compromised at a young age and internalized those values. There are bastions of morality to be found here and there. A few outliers who figured it out on their own. Not many though. Not near enough to stem the tide of filth.

Its a kind of growing that is blighted. Like a diseased tree. It can grow and grow tall but the moral decay slowly kills... ever so slowly.

I think part of it is church too. There are some teachings that seem right but that mess things up.

 

[mkgal1]

There are some teachings that seem right but that mess things up.

That's true. Probably the best defense for that is keeping these verses in mind:

But wisdom is shown to be right by the lives of those who follow it.~Luke 7:35

and

You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit."~Matthew 7

 

[akmom]

I agree. There isn't a whole lot of older couples mentoring younger couples in the church, and that's a shame. Part of it, I think, is exactly what VG said. Older couples have "traditional" dynamics, and younger couples tend toward more egalitarian dynamics. It involves totally different ways of supporting and encouraging each other. How could you translate from one to the other?

I find the differences to extend beyond marriage. Today's young women have vastly different backgrounds in terms of education and work experience. That changes what your day-to-day challenges are. It changes how you think about things. Can you imagine a modern-day stay-at-home dad going to a retired older man for advice on how to handle something? The older man wouldn't know where to begin, so vastly different was his role as a father. I feel kind of the same way when hearing tips from older women. There's just so much that doesn't apply to my life!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have always thought that past generations had a little more "mentorship" from their elders than ours. And if that is what Emjay is getting at, I fully agree.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Why is it so hard to find respectable godly couples to come alongside younger couples to mentor them in marriage, parenting, and faith?

Probably because they're so focused on the health of their marriage that they have no desire to do the same for a younger person's marriage.

There is no magic bullet. Even those couples that you think are "respectable" and "Godly" don't have the secret to a happy marriage that translates across the board to all couples. Nobody wants the weight of having to provide the key to somebody else being happily married.

I have one of the happiest marriages I know and if a younger couple asked us to be their mentor, I'd say no. We have two full time jobs, two part time jobs, three kids, an ex wife, bosses, travelling for work, plus trying to squeeze in time for one-on-one for the kids, time for ourselves, time for family... We don't have time for that too.

And if you asked my husband, he'd say hell no.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I tend to just watch those couples who have been married for a LONG time and learn from them. And I always learn. Its hard to find many couples because divroce is so common today. And sometimes I think we see a couple with issues and think "I don't want advice from them!". But we forget marraige is not perfect. So if we are looking for that perfect couple to get advice from then we will not find them.

I do feel bad for the young generations that are growing up because they will have even less couples to learn from about marriage. But not suprised really since we all know how things end according to the bible.