MEMRA

[Dkh587]

The Angel of the LORD is just that, an angel. He speaks directly on behalf of God, so sometimes it is written as though God himself is talking. That is not the same thing as saying that this Angel is God. Do we agree?

All I'm saying is there are several instances in the Tanach where there is more than 1 being who is referred to as YHWH/God/Elohim

Do you know of any instances where other messengers/angels/malakim are referred to as YHWH?

 

[Dkh587]

The angel of God says he is the God of Bethel

Genesis 31:11-13
And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.

And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee.

I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, andwhere thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.

 

[visionary]

The angel of God says he is the God of Bethel

Which later became bethlehem.

 

[Dkh587]

Another thing I wanted to add, was that the Tanach doesn't use the word "Memra", it uses the word "Debar". And it uses the phrase "Debar-YHWH" in the Hebrew.

This, IMO, is what Yahuchanan(John) spoke about when he said "in the beginning was the Word". I believe he was referring to this divine being in the Tanach called the "Debar" of YHWH.

For example, it was "Debar-YHWH" that appeared to Abram in a vision

Genesis 15:1
After these things Debar-YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Check the Hebrew. It says דבר־יהוה

Also, this same being, called Debar-YHWH, appeared to Eliyah in the cave

1 Kings 19:9-11
And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, debar-YHWH came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Eliyah?

And he said, I have been very jealous for YHWH Elohim of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before YHWH

Notice that the Debar-YHWH, referred to as "He" tells Eliyah to go stand before YHWH. To me, this indicates that there is 1 being called Debar-YHWH, who is telling Eliyah to go stand before another being called YHWH.

YHWH revealed himself to Samuel by Debar-YHWH

1 Samuel 3:21
And YHWH appeared again in Shiloh: for YHWH revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by Debar-YHWH

Who did Samuel, Eliyah, Abram etc talk to and see?

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I believe it was the being that John referred to as the Word.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Debar, and the Debar was with God, and the Debar was God.

just sharing as scriptures and verses come into mind

The word of YHWH is not only the spoken word of God, but it is also referring to a divine being called the word of YHWH. at least that's how i read some of these. He speaks as God, is called God, YHWH, etc, and is worshipped as YHWH/God, but also refers to YHWH as someone else.

I believe this is the same being as the angel/messenger of YHWH.