Medicare For All - A Losing Idea

[Quasiblogo]

"A dark continent", hardly. Not if their preventive health care is better. Just that I've met Canadians that went south for care because it was either that or risk serious consequences from waiting their turn.

 

[Christopher0121]

"A dark continent", hardly. Not if their preventive health care is better. Just that I've met Canadians that went south for care because it was either that or risk serious consequences from waiting their turn.

The video I provided showed, surveyed hospitals track this data and they show extremely low numbers of Canadians turning to American medicine. In fact, nearly all report that those treated were tourists. So, I find your claim spurious. The data simply doesn't reflect this. There are Canadians who don't like their system, just as there are Americans who don't like our system. These tend to exaggerate and yes lie about this sort of thing.

The total number of Canadians reportedly treated in the United States is less than 1% of Canadians. Most are tourists. Some are for elective procedures that do have wait times. Please note, I said "elective procedures", meaning unnecessary with regards to saving life or limb. As I advised in a post above, sign on to a Canadian forum and talk with actual Canadians about their system, or... and I strongly suggest this... go on vacation in Canada and see it first hand. There's a lot of "myths" flying around about Canada's system and Canadians coming to the United States for supposed "treatment".

 

[Quasiblogo]

I’m sure we could find contradicting sources all day long on the web: Democrats Idolize Canada's Health System As It Recovers From Worst Year Ever

 

[cow451]

I’m sure we could find contradicting sources all day long on the web: Democrats Idolize Canada's Health System As It Recovers From Worst Year Ever

That is not an argument against universal care, just an argument against single payer. And validation that healthcare at a reasonable quality is not cheap.

 

[trunks2k]

Very true. I think most would be shocked to know how often insurance companies deny coverage for tests, procedures, etc. Remember, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States is... medical bills.

Heck, even if it is covered, you don't know how much is covered. One of my former coworkers needed a test to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She had the company's health insurance, which was pretty good insurance, but she wasn't sure if the test would be covered, and if so, how much. She was fresh out of college with little savings, so spending a bunch out of pocket for a test had to be carefully planned. So she tried to find out how much it would cost her. The lab said "up to $XXXXX depending on how much your insurance pays for, but we don't know how much they'll cover" she called the insurance and she was told to talk to the billing department at the lab, and she eventually got in touch with the billing dept at the lab which said "$XXX (probably)". I listened to her call people all day to find the answer to a simple question and get several different "maybe this much? we don't know until the bill is submitted" answers.

She was really upset that it would still cost so much - but when she explained the situation to other co workers, they said it didn't make sense, it should be fully covered. She didn't believe them, and almost cancelled the test (chances of $SERIOUS_DISEASE was low). Eventually someone convinced her to just get the test. Turns out it was fully covered, which was a relief to her, and the test was negative. But it amazed me that should could not, for the life of her, get a straight answer as to how much she was going to have to pay and the potential of the cost of the test being so high was a bigger issue than the possibility of having $SERIOUS_DISEASE

 

[comana]

Heck, even if it is covered, you don't know how much is covered. One of my former coworkers needed a test to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She had the company's health insurance, which was pretty good insurance, but she wasn't sure if the test would be covered, and if so, how much. She was fresh out of college with little savings, so spending a bunch out of pocket for a test had to be carefully planned. So she tried to find out how much it would cost her. The lab said "up to $XXXXX depending on how much your insurance pays for, but we don't know how much they'll cover" she called the insurance and she was told to talk to the billing department at the lab, and she eventually got in touch with the billing dept at the lab which said "$XXX (probably)". I listened to her call people all day to find the answer to a simple question and get several different "maybe this much? we don't know until the bill is submitted" answers.

She was really upset that it would still cost so much - but when she explained the situation to other co workers, they said it didn't make sense, it should be fully covered. She didn't believe them, and almost cancelled the test (chances of $SERIOUS_DISEASE was low). Eventually someone convinced her to just get the test. Turns out it was fully covered, which was a relief to her, and the test was negative. But it amazed me that should could not, for the life of her, get a straight answer as to how much she was going to have to pay and the potential of the cost of the test being so high was a bigger issue than the possibility of having $SERIOUS_DISEASE

These types of situations are the norm with private insurance. A billing department can’t give more than a rough estimate because they can’t know what every individual plan covers, whether or not a test will be considered screening or diagnostic, patient’s remaining out of pocket, what the provider’s contracted fee with that insurance plan is, etc. Concrete numbers are only available after the claim is processed.

 

[trunks2k]

These types of situations are the norm with private insurance. A billing department can’t give more than a rough estimate because they can’t know what every individual plan covers, whether or not a test will be considered screening or diagnostic, patient’s remaining out of pocket, what the provider’s contracted fee with that insurance plan is, etc. Concrete numbers are only available after the claim is processed.

Yes, and that's a major problem. You have no idea what your out of pocket costs are going to be.

 

[KCfromNC]

Heck, even if it is covered, you don't know how much is covered. One of my former coworkers needed a test to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She had the company's health insurance, which was pretty good insurance, but she wasn't sure if the test would be covered, and if so, how much. She was fresh out of college with little savings, so spending a bunch out of pocket for a test had to be carefully planned. So she tried to find out how much it would cost her. The lab said "up to $XXXXX depending on how much your insurance pays for, but we don't know how much they'll cover" she called the insurance and she was told to talk to the billing department at the lab, and she eventually got in touch with the billing dept at the lab which said "$XXX (probably)". I listened to her call people all day to find the answer to a simple question and get several different "maybe this much? we don't know until the bill is submitted" answers.

She was really upset that it would still cost so much - but when she explained the situation to other co workers, they said it didn't make sense, it should be fully covered. She didn't believe them, and almost cancelled the test (chances of $SERIOUS_DISEASE was low). Eventually someone convinced her to just get the test. Turns out it was fully covered, which was a relief to her, and the test was negative. But it amazed me that should could not, for the life of her, get a straight answer as to how much she was going to have to pay and the potential of the cost of the test being so high was a bigger issue than the possibility of having $SERIOUS_DISEASE

So what I think you're saying it is actually only 149,999,999 Americans who are totally in love with their employer-provided health plans

 

[FenderTL5]

Rural Healthcare in Tennessee News 5 Documentary.
This aired last night. It's current. It's reality.
The county I grew up in (not mentioned, only briefly shown in a graphic) is part of a three county cluster where there is no hospital.

As I see it; any Democrat unwilling to take on healthcare as a priority is a waste of time and energy.

 

[whatbogsends]

Heck, even if it is covered, you don't know how much is covered. One of my former coworkers needed a test to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She had the company's health insurance, which was pretty good insurance, but she wasn't sure if the test would be covered, and if so, how much. She was fresh out of college with little savings, so spending a bunch out of pocket for a test had to be carefully planned. So she tried to find out how much it would cost her. The lab said "up to $XXXXX depending on how much your insurance pays for, but we don't know how much they'll cover" she called the insurance and she was told to talk to the billing department at the lab, and she eventually got in touch with the billing dept at the lab which said "$XXX (probably)". I listened to her call people all day to find the answer to a simple question and get several different "maybe this much? we don't know until the bill is submitted" answers.

She was really upset that it would still cost so much - but when she explained the situation to other co workers, they said it didn't make sense, it should be fully covered. She didn't believe them, and almost cancelled the test (chances of $SERIOUS_DISEASE was low). Eventually someone convinced her to just get the test. Turns out it was fully covered, which was a relief to her, and the test was negative. But it amazed me that should could not, for the life of her, get a straight answer as to how much she was going to have to pay and the potential of the cost of the test being so high was a bigger issue than the possibility of having $SERIOUS_DISEASE

This is not an unusual situation. Costs never seem to be known. We make medical decisions without knowledge of the financial impact. In most cases, the best answer we get is "insurance should (or shouldn't) cover this", but even when insurance "should cover" something, the exact details of what it will cost is often a mystery. Additionally, there are plenty of times when the expectation is that insurance "should cover" something, but the insurance company fights their responsibility to pay for it, regardless.

We took our son to the ER this year, and despite going to a facility which accepted our insurance, the doctor on call for his treatment wasn't actually part of the facility, so his treatment was billed out of network. Additionally, all follow-up visits were then out of network.

I really don't understand why anyone defends the current health care system in the US. So much of our "healthcare spending" goes to administrative costs and insurance company profits.

 

[Speedwell]

I really don't understand why anyone defends the current health care system in the US. So much of our "healthcare spending" goes to administrative costs and insurance company profits.

Because its not socialism.

 

[trunks2k]

This is not an unusual situation. Costs never seem to be known. We make medical decisions without knowledge of the financial impact.

This is why I can't have a discussion about health care with my dad. He's very "if it's too expensive, the market will make it cost less" sort of person. I've given up trying to explain to him how market forces can't apply for a multitude of reasons; one of which being you have no idea how much a procedure will cost.

Personally, I do like my health insurance. But we have great health insurance b/c my wife works for a huge hospital that is one of the best in the country and provided we use their system, everything is free minus small copays.

 

[Christopher0121]

Heck, even if it is covered, you don't know how much is covered. One of my former coworkers needed a test to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She had the company's health insurance, which was pretty good insurance, but she wasn't sure if the test would be covered, and if so, how much. She was fresh out of college with little savings, so spending a bunch out of pocket for a test had to be carefully planned. So she tried to find out how much it would cost her. The lab said "up to $XXXXX depending on how much your insurance pays for, but we don't know how much they'll cover" she called the insurance and she was told to talk to the billing department at the lab, and she eventually got in touch with the billing dept at the lab which said "$XXX (probably)". I listened to her call people all day to find the answer to a simple question and get several different "maybe this much? we don't know until the bill is submitted" answers.

She was really upset that it would still cost so much - but when she explained the situation to other co workers, they said it didn't make sense, it should be fully covered. She didn't believe them, and almost cancelled the test (chances of $SERIOUS_DISEASE was low). Eventually someone convinced her to just get the test. Turns out it was fully covered, which was a relief to her, and the test was negative. But it amazed me that should could not, for the life of her, get a straight answer as to how much she was going to have to pay and the potential of the cost of the test being so high was a bigger issue than the possibility of having $SERIOUS_DISEASE

And they said that government coverage would be a nightmare. lol