Medicare For All - A Losing Idea

[KCfromNC]

Have them pay for themselves send them the bill. If they will not pay then you can garish their wages and/or put liens on their property until they do.

And then when there's still not enough money to pay for the care, the cost gets spread around to the provider's other customers. Kinda exactly like now. How's that working out?

 

[Sparagmos]

but they can only COMPLETELY wipe out medical debt if they qualify for chapter seven if it is chapter 11 they still have to pay something.

Dogs, I’ve asked you before - who pays for your healthcare? What kind of plan do you have?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Dogs, I’ve asked you before - who pays for your healthcare? What kind of plan do you have?

I am on Medicare which is better than Medicaid, but I have still noted in my nearly 28 years ( on Thursday) that the government usually has a ton of red tape. I would figure that when you have 300 million+ people on something the red tape would be worse. Especially since when I had private insurance as far as I could tell they had less of it.

 

[comana]

I am on Medicare which is better than Medicaid, but I have still noted in my nearly 28 years ( on Thursday) that the government usually has a ton of red tape. I would figure that when you have 300 million+ people on something the red tape would be worse. Especially since when I had private insurance as far as I could tell they had less of it.

I can guarantee you that private insurance does not have less red tape. I am a medical biller and it is well over a year since I last made a call into Medicare or Medicaid or Tricare or VA to get resolution on an unpaid claim.
I currently have a list of of about 12 separate private insurances to call about unpaid claims. Some I have been calling on the same claims for over 8 months! This list is after I pared it down from the start of the month and despite my calls the majority of these will require additional calls because insurance just shelves the claims again after that call and when I follow up again they always say to not know why the claim wasn’t processed last time.
Private insurances intentionally delay or set barriers such as prior authorization, review of medical records, accidental denial of a clean claim, etc. the hope is that efforts to get payment will be given up and the claim written off as a loss.
In the meantime the checks just roll in on time without a fuss from the government payers.
Most patients are blissfully ignorant of how much work can go on behind the front desk to get their insurance to pay their doctor.

 

[RDKirk]

I am on Medicare which is better than Medicaid, but I have still noted in my nearly 28 years ( on Thursday) that the government usually has a ton of red tape. I would figure that when you have 300 million+ people on something the red tape would be worse. Especially since when I had private insurance as far as I could tell they had less of it.

A lot of that red tape is making sure they don't pay something that private ensurers pay. There should be less red tape with a single payer/

 

[Christopher0121]

37.06 million (2018) - Canada Population

327.2 million (2018) (not counting "undocumented workers") - US population

Canadians pay nearly 50% less per capita. And all are covered.

Right now we have Medicare. We also have Medicaid. We also have dozens of redundant programs throughout the states to cover certain segments of the poor, the disabled, etc. We also have the VA to provide care to veterans.

Single Payer would expand Medicare to cover everyone with basic and essential health insurance coverage. All these redundant programs would be phased out and their funding redirected to the national Medicare system. This means that nearly 2/3rds to 3/4'rs of the funding necessary is already in play. It also means that the infrastructure is there to provide services.

Oh, little thought of effects of Single Payer might be significant to many. For example, did you know that Planned Parenthood opposes Single Payer??? They oppose it because it would put them out of business. You see, they provide essential women's health services for women who don't have insurance. If we adopted a Single Payer universal health insurance program, they'd be unnecessary. They'd lose contributions and they'd lose what government funding they get today. They'd fold.

In addition, if a Single Payer system was in place, it would be a government insurance program. A ProLife President could issue an order blocking all funding for abortion services and providers. This would sidestep Roe and empower the office of the President with tremendous power over abortion.

 

[eleos1954]

Canadians pay nearly 50% less per capita. And all are covered.

Right now we have Medicare. We also have Medicaid. We also have dozens of redundant programs throughout the states to cover certain segments of the poor, the disabled, etc. We also have the VA to provide care to veterans.

Single Payer would expand Medicare to cover everyone with basic and essential health insurance coverage. All these redundant programs would be phased out and their funding redirected to the national Medicare system. This means that nearly 2/3rds to 3/4'rs of the funding necessary is already in play. It also means that the infrastructure is there to provide services.

Oh, little thought of effects of Single Payer might be significant to many. For example, did you know that Planned Parenthood opposes Single Payer??? They oppose it because it would put them out of business. You see, they provide essential women's health services for women who don't have insurance. If we adopted a Single Payer universal health insurance program, they'd be unnecessary. They'd lose contributions and they'd lose what government funding they get today. They'd fold.

In addition, if a Single Payer system was in place, it would be a government insurance program. A ProLife President could issue an order blocking all funding for abortion services and providers. This would sidestep Roe and empower the office of the President with tremendous power over abortion.

I guess I'm old school ... the less government in my life the better .

This would sidestep Roe and empower the office of the President with tremendous power over abortion

No president would have the guts to do this. and then what every time the president changes then the abortion law changes?

single payer ... and not just tremendous power over abortion ... tremendous power over our healthcare

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The GOAL of Medicare for All in fine, as long as each citizen has the CHOICE to keep his or her work-plan. If the government plan (state or federal) is good and cost-effective enough, eventually almost everyone would accept this plan. After all, the government would do all it could to move people to its plan.

How about TRUTH FOR ALL ? Stop the coverup by government and by churches and by doctors and by pharmakeia and by hospitals and so on ...... get back to the simple basic truth ....... (it won't happen until Jesus returns, btw --- men /mankind/ governments are all too greedy - they won't give up their bribes and enourmous profits every year)

 

[comana]

I guess I'm old school ... the less government in my life the better .



No president would have the guts to do this. and then what every time the president changes then the abortion law changes?

single payer ... and not just tremendous power over abortion ... tremendous power over our healthcare

And yet Medicare is a very successful form of single payer that retirees love. I would give up my for profit, does anything to not pay, commercial insurance for single payer in a heartbeat.

 

[cow451]

And yet Medicare is a very successful form of single payer that retirees love. I would give up my for profit, does anything to not pay, commercial insurance for single payer in a heartbeat.

Actually Medicare is not a Single payer. There are “Medicare Advantage” plans one can purchase as an alternative.

 

[cow451]

How about TRUTH FOR ALL ? Stop the coverup by government and by churches and by doctors and by pharmakeia and by hospitals and so on ...... get back to the simple basic truth ....... (it won't happen until Jesus returns, btw --- men /mankind/ governments are all too greedy - they won't give up their bribes and enourmous profits every year)

Now that was uplifting. Got any actual ideas between now and the Rapture, which might not happen anytime soon in Earth years?

 

[Quasiblogo]

Why don’t you like my Medicare for all?
So Eurocentric, it’s rationed care y’all!

Why, everyone shall get “a cute” care—it’s a card,
forget A or B, we’ll just fall apart.

There’s more “Advantage” in Medicare now.
The younger ones pay, the rightful cash cow.

Blame it on Bush for our lack of restraint?
With less trillions of debt, the Green New Deal might be sane!

You can keep your doctor
but a quack might be best,
or better join the Senate’s,
a med plan with zest.

 

[comana]

Actually Medicare is not a Single payer. There are “Medicare Advantage” plans one can purchase as an alternative.

Yep and a big duh back at me. I was only thinking of Medicare and not replacement plans. My bad.

 

[cow451]

Yep and a big duh back at me. I was only thinking of Medicare and not replacement plans. My bad.

A poster entirely understands.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Now that was uplifting. Got any actual ideas between now and the Rapture, which might not happen anytime soon in Earth years?

Turn to Yahuweh for His Kingdom is close, even at hand, today.
Obey Him.
(all of His Word is Truth, without exception) He is Totally and Completely Faithful and Righteous and Just.
Yahuweh can be trusted and relied upon. In fact, that is what pleases Him - to trust Him and to rely on Him for all things, always DOING what HE SAYS to DO. ('faith'ful living)

 

[Christopher0121]

Why don’t you like my Medicare for all?
So Eurocentric, it’s rationed care y’all!

The United States rations care far more than most other nations that have Single Payer. However, it isn't based on age, condition, chances of recovery, etc. It's based on ability to pay. In 2007 an estimated 45,000 Americans died from treatable conditions because they didn't have adequate health insurance coverage or money to pay. Sadly, my mother was one of them.

If Canada rationed care and left 45,000 Canadians dying each year from treatable conditions it would be front page news. But for some reason, Americans think this is just fine in our system.

Is it possible that the marketing departments of these big for profit insurance companies have brainwashed us to accept the unthinkable... just so that they can become unthinkably rich?

 

[Quasiblogo]

The United States rations care far more than most other nations with Single Payer. However, it isn't based on age, condition, chances of recovery, etc. It's based on ability to pay. In 2007 an estimated 45,000 Americans died from treatable conditions because they didn't have adequate health insurance coverage or money to pay. Sadly, my mother was one of them.

If Canada rationed care and left 45,000 Canadians dying each year from treatable conditions it would be front page news. But for some reason, Americans think this is just fine in our system.

Is it possible that the marketing departments of these big for profit insurance companies have brainwashed us to accept the unthinkable... just so that they can become unthinkably rich?

Thanks for sharing the information. I'll need to research more. I don't like an empirical approach, but to some extent it is unavoidable. Some things for my reading: (1) whatever percent 45,000 is of the U.S. population, what percentage of the Canadian population is dying due to waiting in line-in before Rx is available? (2) What percentage of the Canadian population is saved by receiving the life-saving procedure they need in the U.S.? (3) To what extent does the preventive health program in Canada (I hear it is better than in the U.S.) helping citizenry avoid serious diseases?

 

[Christopher0121]

Thanks for sharing the information. I'll need to research more. I don't like an empirical approach, but to some extent it is unavoidable. Some things for my reading: (1) whatever percent 45,000 is of the U.S. population, what percentage of the Canadian population is dying due to waiting in line-in before Rx is available? (2) What percentage of the Canadian population is saved by receiving the life-saving procedure they need in the U.S.? (3) To what extent does the preventive health program in Canada (I hear it is better than in the U.S.) helping citizenry avoid serious diseases?

I have friends and family in Outlet, Ontario. You talk like it is the Dark Continent. Back in the 90's there was a big to do about wait times in provincial locations wherein there were fewer clinics and hospitals but the population was growing. However, because it is a public system there was a public investigation and they've made adjustments to eliminate these wait times. In fact, in Ontario the Province puts their hospital and clinical wait times online. You can even look them up before going to the hospital if you'd like so you know what to expect. Today, long wait times are for elective procedures. Not life saving procedures.

I've been to Outlet, Ontario. They aren't languishing without healthcare. Nor are they fleeing the boarder to scramble in here to get care. Getting prescriptions is really not much different than here, accept they don't pay anything at the pharmacy. When I've mentioned these things to my aunt, they just laugh and pity how we Americans believe such myths.

Actually, the number of Canadians coming to the United States for life saving treatment is very very low.

Preventative care comes from having regular physicals and checkups. Americans often avoid these because they can be expensive. The result is that serious conditions aren't caught early when they are relatively inexpensive to treat and recover from. In Canada an overwhelming number of Canadians get this preventative care and it saves lives and money.

This video should help you dispel all these myths. Or... you could just sign up to become a member of a Canadian forum and talk to actual Canadians first hand. I assure you, if you suggest they adopt a system like ours... they will laugh you out of the forum.

Or... you could take a vacation in Canada. It's beautiful, clean, and pristine. If you love the wilderness, there's nothing like it. And, you can visit Toronto and experience a rather modern stay in Canada. Even the city is rather beautiful. Maybe you could go by a hospital and check it out yourself.

But here's the video. I hope it helps...

 

[RDKirk]

The United States rations care far more than most other nations that have Single Payer. However, it isn't based on age, condition, chances of recovery, etc. It's based on ability to pay. In 2007 an estimated 45,000 Americans died from treatable conditions because they didn't have adequate health insurance coverage or money to pay. Sadly, my mother was one of them.

If Canada rationed care and left 45,000 Canadians dying each year from treatable conditions it would be front page news. But for some reason, Americans think this is just fine in our system.

Is it possible that the marketing departments of these big for profit insurance companies have brainwashed us to accept the unthinkable... just so that they can become unthinkably rich?

It's often (but not always) self-rationing. Even I myself have in the last few months delayed some tests and medical care until I was able to get off commercial insurance and get onto Medicare to save the $2500+ I'd have to spend otherwise.

There is hidden rationing--doctors not mentioning procedures and tests that ought to be done, but they already know insurance won't cover them.

I have a friend who died from cancer after his insurance company refused a particular treatment that might have saved him. Now, it's very possible that a universal health plan might have also refused it, but let's not remain under the delusion that insurance companies don't say, "No" as well.

 

[Christopher0121]

It's often (but not always) self-rationing. Even I myself have in the last few months delayed some tests and medical care until I was able to get off commercial insurance and get onto Medicare to save the $2500+ I'd have to spend otherwise.

There is hidden rationing--doctors not mentioning procedures and tests that ought to be done, but they already know insurance won't cover them.

I have a friend who died from cancer after his insurance company refused a particular treatment that might have saved him. Now, it's very possible that a universal health plan might have also refused it, but let's not remain under the delusion that insurance companies don't say, "No" as well.

Very true. I think most would be shocked to know how often insurance companies deny coverage for tests, procedures, etc. Remember, the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States is... medical bills.