Mecca?

[MercuryAndy]

Those who associate partners with Allah are not allowed to visit Mecca.

Do you associate partners with God as He is incapable of Might or perhaps He need children or partners to control His Creation?

why would god have a partner?

Unless he is like a police.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

why would god have a partner?

Unless he is like a police.

Your half way there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyIRhQ8cUk

 

[MercuryAndy]

Your half way there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyIRhQ8cUk

stop trying to convert me when im not paying attention.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

why would god have a partner?

Unless he is like a police.

I really don't understant the meaning of "partner".
I know we are His children if that is what is meant.

reve 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe ofY@huwdah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

 

[MercuryAndy]

I really don't understant the meaning of "partner".
I know we are His children if that is what is meant.

reve 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe ofY@huwdah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

did the seals die? beacuse thats pretty sad.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

stop trying to convert me when im not paying attention.

I just said what you wished to hear does that mean I am trying to convert you? I don't think so....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Those who associate partners with Allah are not allowed to visit Mecca.

Do you associate partners with God as He is incapable of Might or perhaps He need children or partners to control His Creation?

Not control, but "Shepherd/Feed" His creation as the Lord Jesus promises here. I'm telling ya, the Jews would love this book!!!

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559...emic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book


Reve 2: 26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations -- 27 'He shall SHEPHERD them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels' --

 

[MercuryAndy]

I just said what you wished to hear does that mean I am trying to convert you? I don't think so....

i hadnt looked at the video when you posted it beacuse i was watching topgear. But it is very funky music.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Not control, but "Shepherd/Feed" His creation as the Lord Jesus promises here. I'm telling ya, the Jews would love this book!!!

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559...emic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book


Reve 2: 26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations -- 27 'He shall SHEPHERD them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels' --

The job of a Shepherd is to collect and it's just another way of saying control drifting away from truth, bring togeather, guiding to the right path...

 

[Bookofknowledge]

i hadnt looked at the video when you posted it beacuse i was watching topgear. But it is very funky music.

You have a taste of Music... Do you want to liesten to each and every clip I post?

 

[czach8]

You have to make sure if the verse is abrogated or not.

Probably is now. He he hmmmm.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Quran (2:62) says: “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans- whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Days and doeth right, surely their reward is with the Lord, and there sure no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”.

So why does this verse say Christians, Jews, and Sabeans will be rewarded? It sounds as if there is nothing wrong with the Trinity unless the interpretation of my verse is erroneous. However, the Islam is obvious faced with a contradiction.

Peace.

I know that all you have is a translation to go by in which an interpretation is subject thereto, however when I read the Quran this is what it tells me :

Q 2:62

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ​

"Verily those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans who believed in Allah and the last day and did righteousness for them is their reward before their Lord and there is no fear upon them no will they grieve"

This verse is speaking about Jews, Christians, and Sabeans in the past prior to the time of when this verse was revealed to our Prophet, and it excludes those active and to be of the Jews, Christains, and Sabeans.

If you had ever read the entire Quran it says this :

Q 5:73

لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلاَثَةٍ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَـهٍ إِلاَّ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُواْ عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ​

"Indeed those have disbelieved who said "Verily Alllah is the third of three", and nothing is there of a G-d except one G-d, and if they do not cease from what their saying indeed a horrifying penalty will befall those among them"

The Quran makes a distinction of the true believers and unbelievers amongst Christians. The Quran makes this very clear who true Jews, Christians, and Sabeans are and have recounted many Christians who did not believe in trinity, Jesus as the son of G-d, or Jesus being G-d whom were noted as the true believers.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

I really don't understant the meaning of "partner".
I know we are His children if that is what is meant.

in Arabic it is called "SHIRK" which literally means to ascribe, or join with G-d in association of His divinity

 

[czach8]

I know that all you have is a translation to go by in which an interpretation is subject thereto, however when I read the Quran this is what it tells me

Q 2:62

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ​

"Verily those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans who believed in Allah and the last day and did righteousness for them is their reward before their Lord and there is no fear upon them no will they grieve"

And what makes you think the Jews do not believe in Allah before Muhammad's time? When did the Jews never not believe? Also, what makes you think Christians do not believe in Allah anymore?

By the way, most Qurans do not state the above verse in past tense, so presenting Arabic translations are obviously not too effective.

This verse is speaking about Jews, Christians, and Sabeans in the past prior to the time of when this verse was revealed to our Prophet, and it excludes those active and to be of the Jews, Christains, and Sabeans.

And who are the Sabeans?

If you had ever read the entire Quran it says this :

Q 5:73

لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلاَثَةٍ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَـهٍ إِلاَّ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُواْ عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ​

"Indeed those have disbelieved who said "Verily Alllah is the third of three", and nothing is there of a G-d except one G-d, and if they do not cease from what their saying indeed a horrifying penalty will befall those among them"

The Quran makes a distinction of the true believers and unbelievers amongst Christians. The Quran makes this very clear who true Jews, Christians, and Sabeans are and have recounted many Christians who did not believe in trinity, Jesus as the son of G-d, or Jesus being G-d whom were noted as the true believers.

If this is true, and if God knew this would happen, then why would he have introduced Jesus because the product of Jesus are billions of Christians? Why would God waste time with Christianity when all He had to do was intoduce Muhammad at the beginning of time?

Peace.

 

[MercuryAndy]

You have a taste of Music... Do you want to liesten to each and every clip I post?

why yes. yes i do.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

And what makes you think the Jews do not believe in Allah before Muhammad's time?

The verse that you and I ellaborated on does not introduce such an idea, nor did I entertain it. In other parts in the Quran it does however state that some Jews were disbelievers whom were those who deliberately broke the Sabbath, and violated the Torah.

When did the Jews never not believe?

Again I have no idea where you extracted this idea from out of the verse mentioned and my statement. You seem to have been abstracted from the topic of you origial query to which I responded to.

The time when Jews became disbelievers is when they desobeyed G-d, persecuted the prophets, and worshiped something else along with G-d.

Also, what makes you think Christians do not believe in Allah anymore?

It is not what I think, it is what G-d says, if I was to go by what I think I would be in the same condition as they. They were comanded that there is only one G-d and not three that is one or one that is three mimicking what others have done.

Also when a prophet is sent by G-d to a people and they reject that message that the prophet is sent with from G-d, you are indeed considered a disbeliever in G-d, like wise the same manner of the Jews who rejected Jesus and other prophets before him were regarded as disbelievers.

By the way, most Qurans do not state the above verse in past tense, so presenting Arabic translations are obviously not too effective.

Translators I have found render things to appeal to others. For example the word Trinity ie "tathleeth" (Arb) no where in the Quran but you still see it in English translations. There are many things that have been rendered in prejudice when the actual text does notgive such a notion.

However you are more than welcome to consult someone else who is grounded in Quran Arabic about the key points in the text to confirm if the key points in the text is in the past tense.

And who are the Sabeans?

Here is where you can start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabeans

If this is true, and if God knew this would happen, then why would he have introduced Jesus because the product of Jesus are billions of Christians? Why would God waste time with Christianity when all He had to do was intoduce Muhammad at the beginning of time?

I dont know.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

why yes. yes i do.

Make up your mind buddy... There is nothing stoping you to visit Mecca except one statement which your unwilling to say despite of the fact your so eager to visit the sacred mosque. Any way here is a tour of Mecca for you...

Inside Mecca - The Discovery Channel 1/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMhH2dKMnoo

Inside Mecca - The Discovery Channel 2/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28RSipiz6pA

Inside Mecca - The Discovery Channel 3/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDWnR42Tyo0

Inside Mecca - The Discovery Channel 4/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxSSUSYAv_4

Inside Mecca - The Discovery Channel 5/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBt9AxlV-gA

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

those who deliberately broke the Sabbath, and violated the Torah.

Does this include Jesus of Nazareth and His 12 disciples?

 

[czach8]

The verse that you and I ellaborated on does not introduce such an idea, nor did I entertain it. In other parts in the Quran it does however state that some Jews were disbelievers whom were those who deliberately broke the Sabbath, and violated the Torah.

So will you then say Jews who do not accept Muhammad as a prophet will still be saved in the eyes of Allah?

The time when Jews became disbelievers is when they desobeyed G-d, persecuted the prophets, and worshiped something else along with G-d.

I was wondering. Why do you insert a hyphen in the word G-d?

They were comanded that there is only one G-d and not three that is one or one that is three mimicking what others have done.

Well my interpretation of the Trinity is much different than modern Christian interpretations, so I cannot speak for them. Although, the fact still remains they are worshipping the God of Abraham no matter what.

Translators I have found render things to appeal to others. For example the word Trinity ie "tathleeth" (Arb) no where in the Quran but you still see it in English translations. There are many things that have been rendered in prejudice when the actual text does notgive such a notion.

Well most Muslims do not want to feel Christians and suprisingly including Jews are not favor in the eyes of Allah, so I can easily understand that most arguments are based on issues of past and present tenses. However, the translation should be clear, not ambiguous especially when we are dealing with an important issue like this chapter.

Here is where you can start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabeans

Well brother is there a reason why you do not want to explain who the Sabeans are? In any case, your link does not provide any lucid explanations.

I dont know.

According to you, it is quite obvious you are saying God made a serious blunder when introducing Jesus to the world because the result of the gospels was billions of Christians. I find that hard to believe.

Peace and God bless.

 

[bintummi]

So will you then say Jews who do not accept Muhammad as a prophet will still be saved in the eyes of Allah?

i think it's funny how sometimes we say allah, and sometimes we say god, and sometimes g-d (bro, why DO you do that?)

anyways, we believe that everyone will be taken account for their deeds. we don't really know what god will accept/deny, as we are not him (astagfirullah) this is where we would say "allahu alim" meaning only god knows... but we believe that, jews and christians and muslims will be gathered in groups behind their prophets, and delt with accordingly... (i'm kinda summarizing, so you might get the wrong idea, i'd appreciate it if someone could correct me) if a person is completely ignorant of islam, i think that they will be judged according to their beliefs... allahu alim, ya know