Means of Grace

[public hermit]

How is the phrase "means of grace" understood in the Reformed tradition? I'm not a big fan of the phrase. In the strongest sense, I would say Jesus Christ is the Means of grace. So, I take it the word and sacrament are a means in some weaker sense? Are the word and sacrament understood in an instrumental sense? Do they "apply" the means of grace. Isn't that the role of the Holy Spirit? What is meant by that phrase in the Reformed tradition?

 

[JLB777]

How is the phrase "means of grace" understood in the Reformed tradition? I'm not a big fan of the phrase. In the strongest sense, I would say Jesus Christ is the Means of grace. So, I take it the word and sacrament are a means in some weaker sense? Are the word and sacrament understood in an instrumental sense? Do they "apply" the means of grace. Isn't that the role of the Holy Spirit? What is meant by that phrase in the Reformed tradition?

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the grace of God.

He is called the Spirit of Grace.


Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29




We don’t receive grace by eating something, but by humbling ourselves before God, and receiving what only the Spirit can do.




JLB

 

[JM]

How is the phrase "means of grace" understood in the Reformed tradition? I'm not a big fan of the phrase. In the strongest sense, I would say Jesus Christ is the Means of grace. So, I take it the word and sacrament are a means in some weaker sense? Are the word and sacrament understood in an instrumental sense? Do they "apply" the means of grace. Isn't that the role of the Holy Spirit? What is meant by that phrase in the Reformed tradition?

1 Cor. 10.16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

The old Baptist "Keach’s" Catechism Q. 25 defines means of grace thusly:

The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption are His ordinances, especially the Word, Baptism, the Lord’s Supper and Prayer; all which are made effectual to the elect for salvation. (Rom. 10:17; James 1:18; 1 Cor. 3:5; Acts 14:1; 2:41,42) end quote

We receive Christ inwardly by the means of grace. The sermon, Lord's Supper and Baptism are all means of grace by which we lay hold of the promises of Christ.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[public hermit]

We receive Christ inwardly by the means of grace. The sermon, Lord's Supper and Baptism are all means of grace by which we lay hold of the promises of Christ.

So they are instrumental. To say "we lay hold of the promises" through the sermon, the Lord's Supper, and Baptism is to say they apply grace to us. I assume that's what the phrase "means of grace" implies. I guess what confuses me is that Jesus Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit are the means of grace-in the strongest sense of the word "means." The word and sacrament communicate grace, but do they apply them as well? If we say the sacraments are a sign and a seal, when we say "seal" do we mean without them grace is not applied to us?

 

[JLB777]

1 Cor. 10.16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

The old Baptist "Keach’s" Catechism Q. 25 defines means of grace thusly:

The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption are His ordinances, especially the Word, Baptism, the Lord’s Supper and Prayer; all which are made effectual to the elect for salvation. (Rom. 10:17; James 1:18; 1 Cor. 3:5; Acts 14:1; 2:41,42) end quote

We receive Christ inwardly by the means of grace. The sermon, Lord's Supper and Baptism are all means of grace by which we lay hold of the promises of Christ.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

You made a good reply, in which you used scripture.

For that I salute you.


The problem is, “means of grace” is a man made term and can mean many different things to many people.


IOW, it’s a tradition of man.


Tradition in the Bible means ordinance or teaching.


Let’s all believe and practice the doctrine of Christ, for in it, we will find unity.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16

• for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

JLB

 

[JM]

So they are instrumental. To say "we lay hold of the promises" through the sermon, the Lord's Supper, and Baptism is to say they apply grace to us. I assume that's what the phrase "means of grace" implies. I guess what confuses me is that Jesus Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit are the means of grace-in the strongest sense of the word "means." The word and sacrament communicate grace, but do they apply them as well? If we say the sacraments are a sign and a seal, when we say "seal" do we mean without them grace is not applied to us?

We receive grace spiritually, we receive Christ spiritually in the eucharist... On thing that is pretty clear in the writings of the early church is that real presence of Christ at the Lord's Supper, no one believe in the Baptist memorial view, they believe Christ was present. Catholics say by the act of performing the Mass Christ is not only spiritually present but physically as well. Others leave it as a mystery. Calvin taught we receive Christ spiritually and feed upon Him who is our heavenly manna spiritually and we are sustained by feeding upon our Lord.

Calvin's Doctrine of the Lord's Supper by Keith Mathison

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

You made a good reply, in which you used scripture.

For that I salute you.


The problem is, “means of grace” is a man made term and can mean many different things to many people.


IOW, it’s a tradition of man.


Tradition in the Bible means ordinance or teaching.


Let’s all believe and practice the doctrine of Christ, for in it, we will find unity.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16

• for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

JLB

Yours in the Lord,

jm

You made a good reply, in which you used scripture.

For that I salute you.


The problem is, “means of grace” is a man made term and can mean many different things to many people.


IOW, it’s a tradition of man.


Tradition in the Bible means ordinance or teaching.


Let’s all believe and practice the doctrine of Christ, for in it, we will find unity.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16

• for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

JLB

We need the church, we need Elders, we need to congregate with other believers. This will help clear up the confusion. Being Non-Demon is extremely confusing! No one knows what you believe.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[public hermit]

We receive grace spiritually, we receive Christ spiritually in the eucharist... On thing that is pretty clear in the writings of the early church is that real presence of Christ at the Lord's Supper, no one believe in the Baptist memorial view, they believe Christ was present. Catholics say by the act of performing the Mass Christ is not only spiritually present but physically as well. Others leave it as a mystery. Calvin taught we receive Christ spiritually and feed upon Him who is our heavenly manna spiritually and we are sustained by feeding upon our Lord.

Calvin's Doctrine of the Lord's Supper by Keith Mathison

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Yes, Calvin taught that the Spirit feeds us the heavenly body of Christ, who is located with the Father. So, in the strict sense, it is the Spirit who is the means of grace, not the sacrament. That's my point. I understand the Reformed understanding of the sacrament. What I am not sure of is what we in the Reformed tradition mean, exactly, by the phrase "means of grace."

The reason I ask is because it sounds strange to say anything is a means of grace, other than Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

 

[JM]

Yes, Calvin taught that the Spirit feeds us the heavenly body of Christ, who is located with the Father. So, in the strict sense, it is the Spirit who is the means of grace, not the sacrament. That's my point. I understand the Reformed understanding of the sacrament. What I am not sure of is what we in the Reformed tradition mean, exactly, by the phrase "means of grace."

The reason I ask is because it sounds strange to say anything is a means of grace, other than Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

According to revelation the special means of grace are the preaching of the word, baptism and the Lord's Supper. It is through the word and these elements we spiritual feed upon Christ. Since the Reformation, Protestants have stressed word and sacrament. I stress this not to deemphasize the work of the Holy Spirit, but only to stress the importance of revelation. These are the means of grace are used by God to communicate grace to His people.

Heidelberg Catechism (1563)

65. Q. Since then we are made partakers of Christ and all his benefits by faith only, from where comes this faith?

A. The Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts by the preaching of the holy gospel, and confirms it by the use of the holy sacraments.

It would be considered an error to stress the Spirits work apart from the preaching of the word and sacraments.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JLB777]

Yours in the Lord,

jm

We need the church, we need Elders, we need to congregate with other believers. This will help clear up the confusion. Being Non-Demon is extremely confusing! No one knows what you believe.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Denominations are the way we are divided.


The way we have unity is by all believing and practicing the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16





JLB

 

[JM]

Denominations are the way we are divided.


The way we have unity is by all believing and practicing the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16





JLB

Lack of clarity and lack of charity divides.

Yours,

jm

 

[JLB777]

Lack of clarity and lack of charity divides.

Yours,

jm

Yes.

The scriptures are clear.

The doctrine of Christ is clear.


Man’s tradition is not clear and is divisive.

Let’s all teach and believe the truth.

Jesus and His words are the truth.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



JLB

 

[JM]

Yes.

The scriptures are clear.

The doctrine of Christ is clear.


Man’s tradition is not clear and is divisive.

Let’s all teach and believe the truth.

Jesus and His words are the truth.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



JLB

You do understand this is the Semper forum? Most, if not all Calvinists, are confessional. Primitives, Gospel Standard Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Reformed Christians, etc. all use Confessions.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JLB777]

You do understand this is the Semper forum? Most, if not all Calvinists, are confessional. Primitives, Gospel Standard Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Reformed Christians, etc. all use Confessions.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I don’t recognize any of those labels as biblical.

Just more man made terms to keep us divided.



JLB

 

[JM]

I don’t recognize any of those labels as biblical.

Just more man made terms to keep us divided.



JLB

Non-Denominational is a modern invention bud. The problem is most Non-Denom's ignore this fact.

"The first non-denominational churches appeared in the United States in the course of the 20th century, in the form of independent churches.[1] They have experienced significant and continuous growth in the 21st century, particularly in the United States, where they represented the third largest Christian denomination in 2010.[2][3][4] In Asia, especially in Singapore and Malaysia, these churches are also more numerous, since the 1990s."



Ignoring important theological distinctions for a pretend feeling of unity is naive.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Sovereign Grace]

You do understand this is the Semper forum? Most, if not all Calvinists, are confessional. Primitives, Gospel Standard Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Reformed Christians, etc. all use Confessions.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Precisely. We do not base our walk upon what these confessions teach(we use the bible for that), but these confessions show others what we believe the scriptures teach. To be non-confessional is to be on shaky ground.

As I read in a book recently, confessions, creeds, &c., are ministerial, whereas the bible is magisterial.

 

[JM]

Precisely. We do not base our walk upon what these confessions teach(we use the bible for that), but these confessions show others what we believe the scriptures teach. To be non-confessional is to be on shaky ground.

As I read in a book recently, confessions, creeds, &c., are ministerial, whereas the bible is magisterial.

Amen.

 

[JLB777]

Non-Denominational is a modern invention bud. The problem is most Non-Denom's ignore this fact.

I’m not associated with a denomination.



JLB

 

[JM]

I’m not associated with a denomination.



JLB

Yes, yes you are. It's called Non-Demon and teaches a new doctrine founded in the 20th century. Ignore that fact if you like but that's the truth.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JLB777]

Yes, yes you are. It's called Non-Demon and teaches a new doctrine founded in the 20th century. Ignore that fact if you like but that's the truth.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Sorry bro.


Like I said, I’m not associated with any denomination.


You don’t know me, and certainly don’t know my background.


Denominations are all man made made and are designed to divide us.




JLB