Meaninglessness of science mathematics religion- EVERYTHING

[IzzyPop]

substances have been taken to to be
note nu 3 it does say essence i think
http://www.answers.com/topic/substance?cat=biz-fin



and from

That does nothing to clarify Putnam's position. And you are ignoring other, more cogent, questions about your position.

 

[Elspeth688]

That does nothing to clarify Putnam's position. And you are ignoring other, more cogent, questions about your position.

i gave you a proof of the illogicality of logic due to the notuion of essence u said logic does not have essence -to show if our very logic we use in arguments is meaningless then all our arguments have no epistemic worth be cause the loguc we use is meaningless ie self contradictory - and in terms of loguics own standards is not true
i have given u 3 people who say logic has an ontology ie essence u did not know what substance was i quote a definition and aristotle to show substance = essence
if u dont get it now then that is you problem of understanding

 

[quatona]

that is fine but intellectually the univere is a meaningless self contradictory chaos even though u can make a pc THE UNIVERSE IS CHAOS MEANINGLESSNESS

Ok, but where´s the problem? I give it meaning and this meaning is good enough for me.
I guess I don´t seem to understand your disappointment and outrage in view of the universe being "chaos meaningless" (in the way you use this word). Relax, chill.

 

[quatona]

WITH EVERY THING BEING MEANINGLESS THEN EVERY THING HAS EQUAL EPISTEMIC WORTH
so yes just thriow a dart at a idea and it will be as good as any one else-EPISTEMOLOGIALLY

This idea seems to be of great meaning and importance to you.

 

[IzzyPop]

i gave you a proof of the illogicality of logic due to the notuion of essence u said logic does not have essence -to show if our very logic we use in arguments is meaningless then all our arguments have no epistemic worth be cause the loguc we use is meaningless ie self contradictory - and in terms of loguics own standards is not true
i have given u 3 people who say logic has an ontology ie essence u did not know what substance was i quote a definition and aristotle to show substance = essence
if u dont get it now then that is you problem of understanding

There are gaps, but I'm tired of arguing the petty points. Let us suppose that you are correct and 'everything is meaningless'. How does the practical application of this philosophy differ from the practical application of existentialism? You are still left with 2 options that I can see. Make you own meaning or give in to the despair that the universe is meaningless.

 

[Elspeth688]

Make you own meaning or give in to the despair that the universe is meaningless.

both solutions end in meaninglessness
perhaps u just say the logic used to arrive at everything is meaningless must be abandoned
like aristotleain logic is abandoned in quatum logic because it led to contradictions in the atomic view of things
in other words
just use another logic -simple

why do u assume the logic u use is a tool for truth any way

 

[IzzyPop]

both solutions end in meaninglessness

Wrong. If you assign meaning to your existence, it has meaning.

why do u assume the logic u use is a tool for truth any way

It works fine so far. What other method is there?

 

[quatona]

just use another logic -simple

Last time I checked there was but one logic.

why do u assume the logic u use is a tool for truth any way

I don´t, but to tell from your posts you seem to try to use logic just as much as everyone else.

 

[Elspeth688]

Last time I checked there was but one logic

there is paraconsitent logic
quantum logic
3 value logic
symbolic logic
propostional logic
etc

if your logic majkes your world meaningless try another logic
u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

 

[quatona]

there is paraconsitent logic
quantum logic
3 value logic
symbolic logic
propostional logic
etc

I am talking about the most basic logic here. The mere fact that you write down words and expect them to be - more or less - understood tells me that you find it useful, too. Alternatively we could agree to abandon it for purposes of this thread, and then everyone could talk nonsense as they please.

aöskdjg o3i4u4g cv üsou q.

if your logic majkes your world meaningless try another logic

It is not my logic, it is the logic that everyone - including you and this Dean fellow - axiomatically and nolens volens accepts for a standard as soon as they open their mouthes. Logic doesn´t make the world meaningless. Your definition of "meaning" makes the world meaningless.

u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

Or get rid of these obscure ideas of "truth" and "meaning" (in your definition) altogether.

 

[Elspeth688]

Or get rid of these obscure ideas of "truth" and "meaning" (in your definition) altogether.

meaningless = self contradiction
everything evenn the existentialist end in self contradiction
to escape from that
just get rid of the logic that generated the self-contradiction of EVERYTHING

u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

 

[quatona]

meaningless = self contradiction

Illogical. If something has no meaning it can´t be self-contradictory.

everything evenn the existentialist end in self contradiction
to escape from that
just get rid of the logic that generated the self-contradiction of EVERYTHING

u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

That´s basically a repetition of your previous post.

 

[IzzyPop]

there is paraconsitent logic
quantum logic
3 value logic
symbolic logic
propostional logic
etc

if your logic majkes your world meaningless try another logic
u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

You are missing the whole point I am trying to make. How you arrive at the idea that the universe is meaningless is not important. What you do once that conclusion is arrived at is important. That is where I do not see the difference in the idea you are proposing and existentialism.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

there is paraconsitent logic
quantum logic
3 value logic
symbolic logic
propostional logic
etc

These are models of logic. Binary logic, tertiary logic, etc, are all equivalent logical models. 100 and 4 may look different at face value, but when one understands that the latter is binary and the latter is decimal, it is clear that they are equivalent.
Likewise, fuzzy logic and binary logic work from different fundamentals to model the same thing: logic.

if your logic majkes your world meaningless try another logic
u see the existentialist when they say the world was meaningless still thought that the logic they used to arrive at that idea had meaning and was a tool for truth -thus they fell into self contradiction
all they had to do instead of comiting sucide was just change there logic hahaha

You are confusing terminology. Meaningless, to the existentialist, does not mean 'self-contradictory', as you strangely define it.

 

[Elspeth688]

Illogical. If something has no meaning it can´t be self-contradictory

dean is saying self-contradiction is the same as meaninglessness
for if something is self contradictory it is nonses or meaningless

Meaningless, to the existentialist, does not mean 'self-contradictory', as you strangely define it.

dean is saying the existentalist notion of meaninglesness wil end in self contradiction
and self contradiction for dean is the samre as meaningless
he is useing meaningless in a diiif sense to them

 

[Wiccan_Child]

dean is saying self-contradiction is the same as meaninglessness
for if something is self contradictory it is nonses or meaningless

Just because the self-contradictory has no meaning, does not mean the meaningless is self-contradictory.
And, you have yet to show how science, mathematics, and/or religion are either meaningless or self-contradictory.

Just because all dogs are animals, does not mean that all animals are dogs.

dean is saying the existentalist notion of meaninglesness wil end in self contradiction
and self contradiction for dean is the samre as meaningless
he is useing meaningless in a diiif sense to them

Dean can say what he wants. However, can he demonstrate that existential nihilism is ultimately self-contradictory? Indeed, I fail to see how it could possibly be, because it is merely taking existential thought to it's logical conclusion.

 

[Elspeth688]

Dean can say what he wants. However, can he demonstrate that existential nihilism is ultimately self-contradictory?

sure
they use logic to arrive at the idea all is meaningless
but the one thing that is not meaningless is the logic they use
to say the world is meaningless in their sense they need something which is not meanigless to make that truth claim
but if logic is not meaningless - in their sense then the world is not meaningless in their sense thus self contradiction
they are like all sceptics and nihlists they say their views based upon the beleife that the logic they use is a tool for truth
same for the existentalist
they commited sucide because their logic told them the worl was meaningless based upon the view that their logic was a tool for truth and thus the world could not be meangless since logic had meaning so the idoits killed themselves all over their belife that logic had meaning HAHAHAHASHAHA

 

[Wiccan_Child]

sure
they use logic to arrive at the idea all is meaningless

Correct, but I would be careful about how you use the words 'all' and 'meaningless'.

but the one thing that is not meaningless is the logic they use

How so? Logic is the way sentient beings should think. It is rational, and unbiased.
But it is ultimately meaningless. It has no purpose.

to say the world is meaningless in their sense they need something which is not meanigless to make that truth claim

No, they do not. The existentialist sees meaningless as equivalent to purposeless, not senseless.

but if logic is not meaningless - in their sense then the world is not meaningless in their sense thus self contradiction

See above. You are confusing three different definitions of meaningless:
Self contradictory (your definition, which I disagree with)
Purposeless (the usual existentialist definition)
Senseless (the colloquial definition; saying '1+2=cheese' is senseless)

they are like all sceptics and nihlists they say their views based upon the beleife that the logic they use is a tool for truth
same for the existentalist
they commited sucide because their logic told them the worl was meaningless based upon the view that their logic was a tool for truth and thus the world could not be meangless since logic had meaning so the idoits killed themselves all over their belife that logic had meaning HAHAHAHASHAHA

I question whether you actually believe this, or are playing the Devil's advocate.

 

[Elspeth688]

they are like all sceptics and nihlists they say their views based upon the beleife that the logic they use is a tool for truth
same for the existentalist
they commited sucide because their logic told them the worl was meaningless based upon the view that their logic was a tool for truth and thus the world could not be meangless since logic had meaning so the idoits killed themselves all over their belife that logic had meaning HAHAHAHASHAHA

yes i do and so does dean

 

[Elspeth688]

How so? Logic is the way sentient beings should think. It is rational, and unbiased.
But it is ultimately meaningless. It has no purpose.

if logic has no purpose why did they use it to arive at there is no purpose
its purpose for them was to find truth and the truth they thought they found was was no purpose -self contradiction
they found meaning our purpose in no purpose or meaninglesness
thus their notions of bad faith freedom the whole existentialst dogma
pleanty of purpose and pleanty of self contradiction