Meaingless words in the Koran

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

There is a contradiction in Islamic ideas regarding the Koran.

Moslems say that the Koran is 'clear' and can be understood BUT there are meaningless words in the Koran and that their god al-Lah has reserved the meaning of these words to himself.

How can it be both clear and unclear?

Grumpy Old Man · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
There is a contradiction in Islamic ideas regarding the Koran.

Moslems say that the Koran is 'clear' and can be understood BUT there are meaningless words in the Koran and that their god al-Lah has reserved the meaning of these words to himself.

How can it be both clear and unclear?

I really need to pick up the Qur'an again sometime. I just couldn't make sense of it because the particular English translation I tried to read was so rambling and nonsensical. It read like the rantings of a drunk apocalyptic street preacher who hated everyone except other drunk apocalyptic street preachers.

Anyway, moving onto the topic, what meaningless words are you on about? Can you share some verses?

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

I cited them on another thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7615248-5/#post59281650

Grumpy Old Man · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
I cited them on another thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7615248-5/#post59281650

Yup, you're right. Even Muslim scholars seem to struggle with those particular "words".

Drunk On Love · Dec 14, 2011

The letters are only understandable to those who are divinely guided in their reading of them.

Drunk On Love · Dec 14, 2011

This is a post I did on the subject in the other discussion:

[3:8] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge. They say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding:

[/FONT]For this reason I don't believe he was saying that every passage , even down to the mysterious letters, are understandable to every person without fail.

Some have "decisive" meaning and others are "susceptible of different interpretations."

FrenchyBearpaw · Dec 14, 2011

Drunk On Love said:
The letters are only understandable to those who are divinely guided in their reading of them.

This is exactly what Christians say about their holy scriptures, that you need a holy spirit to divinely guide you in understanding them.

Guess this pretty much // thread?

Avelina777 · Dec 14, 2011

Drunk On Love said:
The letters are only understandable to those who are divinely guided in their reading of them.

Huh

Avelina777 · Dec 14, 2011

FrenchyBearpaw said:
This is exactly what Christians say about their holy scriptures, that you need a holy spirit to divinely guide you in understanding them.

Guess this pretty much // thread?

Not all christians frenchy.

Avelina777 · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
There is a contradiction in Islamic ideas regarding the Koran.

Moslems say that the Koran is 'clear' and can be understood BUT there are meaningless words in the Koran and that their god al-Lah has reserved the meaning of these words to himself.

How can it be both clear and unclear?

Honestly the whole thing is meaningless because it is not inspired Word of God and now it is said that only "certain" people can understand, what is the point of having every child line up in a row and receit it until they have memorized the entire thing. It is even about understanding it they just want it memorized.

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

Drunk On Love said:
The letters are only understandable to those who are divinely guided in their reading of them.

What do they mean to you?

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

Drunk On Love said:
This is a post I did on the subject in the other discussion:

[3:8] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning they are the basis of the Book and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge. They say, We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord. And none heed except those gifted with understanding:

[/FONT]For this reason I don't believe he was saying that every passage , even down to the mysterious letters, are understandable to every person without fail.

Some have "decisive" meaning and others are "susceptible of different interpretations."

What's the interpretation on these meaningless words?

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

FrenchyBearpaw said:
This is exactly what Christians say about their holy scriptures, that you need a holy spirit to divinely guide you in understanding them.

Guess this pretty much // thread?

Moslem apology by tu quoque again.

Apparently Islam can't be examined without reference to Chrisitanity

Avelina777 · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
Moslem apology by tu quoque again.

Apparently Islam can't be examined without reference to Chrisitanity

This is true, why is this?

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

Avelina777 said:
This is true, why is this?

It would be easy to note that the enemy of God uses many tricks.

FrenchyBearpaw · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
Moslem apology by tu quoque again.

Apparently Islam can't be examined without reference to Chrisitanity

You're free to examine it however you like. Just pointing out the pot is calling the kettle black. Surely you can appreciate the similarities of your respective faiths? I recommend you guys focus on those things you have in common, unity is the only answer.

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

FrenchyBearpaw said:
You're free to examine it however you like. Just pointing out the pot is calling the kettle black.

It's a logical fallacy.

It's also based on no evidence from you whatsoever.

It's a really easy statement to make "Oh, you do it too" with nothing specific and then divert attention from the Islam to such a generalist attack on Christianity that one can't actually address it anyway, because there was no substance in it to address.

FrenchyBearpaw said:
Surely you can appreciate the similarities of your respective faiths?

Start a thread

FrenchyBearpaw said:
I recommend you guys focus on those things you have in common, unity is the only answer.

I didn't know you had a sense of humour.

If you have anything to say re: the OP I'd be glad to hear it. What I see however is a rush headlong to turn any subject into an attack on Christianity - it's one of the reasons I'm confirmed a Christian.

The irrational hate towards Christianity helps confirm my opinion of its truth.

FrenchyBearpaw · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
It's a logical fallacy.

It's also based on no evidence from you whatsoever.

It's a really easy statement to make "Oh, you do it too" with nothing specific and then divert attention from the Islam to such a generalist attack on Christianity that one can't actually address it anyway, because there was no substance in it to address.

Start a thread

I didn't know you had a sense of humour.

If you have anything to say re: the OP I'd be glad to hear it. What I see however is a rush headlong to turn any subject into an attack on Christianity - it's one of the reasons I'm confirmed a Christian.

The irrational hate towards Christianity helps confirm my opinion of its truth.

Whatever floats your boat, brother.

Avelina777 · Dec 14, 2011

Montalban said:
It's a logical fallacy.

The irrational hate towards Christianity helps confirm my opinion of its truth.

Me too

Montalban · Dec 14, 2011

FrenchyBearpaw said:
Whatever floats your boat, brother.

If you really want to discuss the similarities, start a thread. I'd be happy to discuss the topic

Meaingless words in the Koran

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