McCarrick gets away with it

[Markie Boy]

Of course, it would be good to have you come back.

But if these things trouble you now, they will still trouble you when you come back. Maybe more so.

I was strongly motivated to revert, and recently did.
But it is sometimes hard, even for me, to hold on to that motivation, when I see all the bad stuff.

I think it would help me greatly if I could get into a Traditional Catholic Church, but there are none near me.
If you have one near to you, you really might want to try it.

There are many Catholic Churches near me, but most are struggling. Modernism has nearly destroyed them.
It's been very discouraging to me. I didn't come into the Church to become lukewarm.

Yes, there is so much more to the Traditional Church than just the Latin language at Mass, so much that changed with Vatican II ...
and we are seeing many of the fruits of Vatican II in the things we are now seeing in the Church.

Maybe I am saying too much, but you seem like a sincere inquirer. I have been, and am, also.
So I feel the need to 'prepare' you abit for what you will probably encounter, too, should you convert/revert.

To remain on-fire about Catholicism, I find I must continue to "fuel the flame" of desire by continuing my own pursuit of it thru more traditional media, more traditional Catholic writings, more 'traditional' forums like this one. I haven't yet been able to find the Catholicism I am looking for, offline. I'm beginning to doubt that I ever will, and will need to settle for what is available to me., "supplementing" it the way that I am.

True Catholicism is a beautiful thing. It is definitely worth pursuing.
But also, be prepared to be disappointed abit, when you go searching for a local Church that represents it the way you think that it should ...

Many churches, of all denominations, are struggling these days with issues.
I have yet to find a perfect church, and have been in many of them.
We each just have to decide what imperfections we can live with ...

A lot of truth there. I have been in a few different churches, and none are perfect.

I have been to a Latin parish some. My teenage kids got to know some of the families pretty good, and there were the same issues as everywhere - drinking, swearing, sex out of marriage. The Trad thing looks more formal on the outside, but not so sure it's actually better.

When it comes to doctrine, it embraces Vatican I even more so. Of all things I think Vatican I was the biggest deviation from the early church, and is one of the biggest things that will keep me away.

 

[mourningdove~]

A lot of truth there. I have been in a few different churches, and none are perfect.

I have been to a Latin parish some. My teenage kids got to know some of the families pretty good, and there were the same issues as everywhere - drinking, swearing, sex out of marriage. The Trad thing looks more formal on the outside, but not so sure it's actually better.

When it comes to doctrine, it embraces Vatican I even more so. Of all things I think Vatican I was the biggest deviation from the early church, and is one of the biggest things that will keep me away.

Interesting.

Well, very frankly? I don't believe America has much more time. This isn't coming from anything the Catholic Church teaches; we're just talking about Biblical prophecy and world events as we are currently seeing them.

From all you've shared in this and past posts about Catholicism, it doesn't appear you like much about the Catholic Church. But as you know, there are lots of other churches out there. I hope you find the one that will work for you and your family, and soon, as I really don't think there is much time left to spend on church shopping. Again, my belief and that of many others, is that it's time to be prepared for things to come. When I say prepared, I don't just mean having emergency stocks and stores in the home, though that is certainly important. I mean it is time to be spiritually prepared ourselves, and to do all that we can to lead others to faith in Jesus Christ before there is no more time left to do so.

So 'nuff said. Don't want to hijack this thread any further. Sorry the RC won't work for you, but it is 'working' for others of us, in helping us to draw nearer to Christ and one another in His Love. Your respect for our choice of faith journey is appreciated.

May God bless you and yours.

 

[Markie Boy]

Interesting.

Well, very frankly? I don't believe America has much more time. This isn't coming from anything the Catholic Church teaches; we're just talking about Biblical prophecy and world events as we are currently seeing them.

From all you've shared in this and past posts about Catholicism, it doesn't appear you like much about the Catholic Church. But as you know, there are lots of other churches out there. I hope you find the one that will work for you and your family, and soon, as I really don't think there is much time left to spend on church shopping. Again, my belief and that of many others, is that it's time to be prepared for things to come. When I say prepared, I don't just mean having emergency stocks and stores in the home, though that is certainly important. I mean it is time to be spiritually prepared ourselves, and to do all that we can to lead others to faith in Jesus Christ before there is no more time left to do so.

So 'nuff said. Don't want to hijack this thread any further. Sorry the RC won't work for you, but it is 'working' for others of us, in helping us to draw nearer to Christ and one another in His Love. Your respect for our choice of faith journey is appreciated.

May God bless you and yours.

I think you are correct. There is a big part of me that misses my old Catholic parish community, which is why I struggle so much. But I may never bridge that gap, and it's not right that I share my frustrations with things.

I'll sign off of Christian Forums until I figure things out better.

I apologize for causing trouble, and wish everyone God's blessings.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think you are correct. There is a big part of me that misses my old Catholic parish community, which is why I struggle so much. But I may never bridge that gap, and it's not right that I share my frustrations with things.

I'll sign off of Christian Forums until I figure things out better.

What? And go it more alone than you already are?

I apologize for causing trouble, and wish everyone God's blessings.

You have caused less trouble than you think. Lots of us are pulling for you, and have been pulling for you for a long time. It's painful to watch the pain you are going through over all of this. Some of us have gone through similar things. In my case it was about 45 years ago. We're not laughing at you. Or scorning you.

 

[mourningdove~]

I think you are correct. There is a big part of me that misses my old Catholic parish community, which is why I struggle so much. But I may never bridge that gap, and it's not right that I share my frustrations with things.

I'll sign off of Christian Forums until I figure things out better.

I apologize for causing trouble, and wish everyone God's blessings.

Thank you for your consideration, but I see no reason to leave.
You do seem to be in quite a quandry about all this, and I have wondered why you even bother with the RC, given all you do not like about it.
But now you have explained that. It helps to know what is driving you.

You keep returning here. Are folks here something like your old Catholic parish?
Wouldn't surprise me if they are, since this welcoming community has played a significant role in my own return to the RC.
There are good Catholics here ... 'the real thing'.

Maybe this place will be all the "Catholic' you know for awhile? What harm would there be in that?
All of faith is a journey. Sometimes God satisifies our current desires, provides the answers we are seeking, in mysterious ways ...

 

[JSRG]

McCarrick’s Escape: An Allegory for our Times

McCarrick was the quintessential ‘Vatican II’ priest.

onepeterfive.com

This article seems far less about McCarrick and far more about the author ranting about not liking Vatican II and the new mass, particularly with remarks like
"McCarrick’s career of abuse, should not surprise us at all if we consider the disaster of the Novus Ordo Mundi… er, I mean Novus Ordo Missae."
or
"If anything, we ought to pray for a hasty and holy death of the Vatican II generation of prelates, so the abuse can finally stop."

Then again, I'm not sure why I expected anything else from One Peter Five

 

[Markie Boy]

Thank you for your consideration, but I see no reason to leave.
You do seem to be in quite a quandry about all this, and I have wondered why you even bother with the RC, given all you do not like about it.
But now you have explained that. It helps to know what is driving you.

You keep returning here. Are folks here something like your old Catholic parish?
Wouldn't surprise me if they are, since this welcoming community has played a significant role in my own return to the RC.
There are good Catholics here ... 'the real thing'.

Maybe this place will be all the "Catholic' you know for awhile? What harm would there be in that?
All of faith is a journey. Sometimes God satisifies our current desires, provides the answers we are seeking, in mysterious ways ...

Thank you guys. It's this spirit that keeps me around.

I have been through the theological ringer, and read more Church history than a normal person should. And have checked out and attended multiple churches.

I don't know what I am other than a Christian.

I am not excited about modern American Christianity.

I am not a dispensationlist
I am not a Once Saved Always Saved fan
I am not a Calvinist
I am not a fan of the expression "Faith Alone" (some truth there for initial conversion, but not a good way to picture the faith)
I am not a fan of rock concert churches
I don't think a sermon has to be at least 40 minutes
I am pro-life, without exceptions

In general - I don't make a very good Modern American protestant either. I guess I need to be OK spending time in the desert for a while, and being without a church home. But I do miss that community.

So I just wish the Catholic Church would have defined a lot less stuff - would make life easier for me.

Thanks you guys for being kind.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am not excited about modern American Christianity.

There are only rare little bits to be excited about.

I am not a dispensationlist

A modern invention anyway, but all too common.

I am not a Once Saved Always Saved fan

Not Scriptural anyway. No matter how many verses they throw at us. Proponents studiously neglect a lot more.

I am not a Calvinist

No TULIP gardens for you? The PCA can be OK in some regards as at least they think, but then there is that Calvin thing.

I am not a fan of the expression "Faith Alone" (some truth there for initial conversion, but not a good way to picture the faith)

Luther went overboard with this one, didn't he? But finally Lutherans and Catholics, some of us anyway, can agree on justification.

I am not a fan of rock concert churches

Lord spare us. Seriously.

I don't think a sermon has to be at least 40 minutes

Quality is elusive. Increasing the quantity doesn't help much.

I am pro-life, without exceptions

Good.

In general - I don't make a very good Modern American protestant either.

We can have some common cause with some kind of Protestants. Even call them brothers and sisters.

I guess I need to be OK spending time in the desert for a while, and being without a church home. But I do miss that community.

Did you ever get down to Stillwater MN to St. Michael's parish? I know it's a long drive but it is an exceptional place. It made the list for reverent Catholic masses at Reverent Catholic Mass

So I just wish the Catholic Church would have defined a lot less stuff - would make life easier for me.

What bugs me much more is that the Catholic Church has such failures in it's ranks. But then they haven't excommunicated me yet either.

Thanks you guys for being kind.

Why shouldn't we be? The great lake is vast and stormy. Father Baraga made it across alive. You may know that as a bit of Lake Superior lore but it also reflects some of the missionary spirit that was at play in the early days of UP Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Look it up.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Though multiple reports about McCarrick's alleged conduct with adult seminarians were made to American bishops and the Vatican between 1993 and 2016,[9][10] allegations of sexual abuse against minors were not known until 2018. In July 2018, The New York Times published a story detailing a pattern of sexual abuse of male seminarians and minors.[3] After a church investigation and trial, he was found guilty of sexual crimes against adults and minors and abuse of power and dismissed from the clerical state in February 2019.[11] He is the most senior church official in modern times to be laicized,[12] and is the first known case of a cardinal being laicized for sexual abuse.[13]

Theodore McCarrick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do remember reading of an uproar before [for non removal] and found an article stating:

Pope Francis had said previously when asked why not laicize them [abusers] instead of clipping their wings, his response, it's better to keep them under obedience than allow them to be free to commit acts and no one to answer to or keep them away fully from children.

According to the above wiki, Pope Francis wanted all the info found. In which case it makes sense, before handing someone over.
That he is incompetent ... it could be. It took the Church 4 years to get all reports [probably witnesses and the rendering of physical marks etc... and a dr exam.]
He is 93.


I am not defending nor deflecting.

But from the Church POV, innocent til proven guilty and sometimes in all the allegations that people made, some claims that were not provable and absolutely lies.


I think while these men are investigated, taking them off duty is smart. Rather than setting them free to do tremendous more harm.

WITH THAT SAID:
Releasing them for trial and conviction with evidence is smart, too.