May the Force be with you?

[Anthony]

Is God required by the laws of words and the power force of faith; to provide you what you request?

 

[Crosslight]

Hey,

Nice question. If, when you are praying, the Lord reveals what His will is, and you pray according to His will, and not your own desires, then yes, our Lord will do as you request. This is His promise. Of course, consider, you got the Word from Him first..

But, then, if you are prompted by the Holy Spirit that you have a problem that needs taken care of before you continue on.. then you must do that first before you and the Lord can continue on down the path where He is leading.

The key... abide in Him that He is abiding in you and you can not miss His steps.

His servant,
stacie

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Is God required by the laws of words and the power force of faith; to provide you what you request?

Only when the words are His and the faith is based on them, will the power be released and God fulfill.

The question is based on the heresy of super-sovereignty... an ancient doctrine that implies that God is so sovereign that He can ignore His own word, ignore the promises His has made, and even ignore the gospel and the name and blood of Jesus. This theory stems primarily from the religions that worshipped the old Roman and Greek gods. These gods could do anything to anyone.... even each other. Men were mere pawns to them. These old gods were super-sovereign, meaning they could do things like cast the righteous into hell and reward the sinners with heaven.
This sort of thought has crept into the modern contemporary church theology in the form of the "general attributes of God." These "general attributes of God" are used to overrule the gospel, the promises of God, and even the name and blood of Jesus. This heresy promotes the idea that faith in the promises of God is somehow "forcing Him" to act. This theory completely guts the principles of faith toward God, the integrity of God, and the ultimate goodness and righteousness of God. These false teachings say that the will of God is not revealed in the Word of God or in the life and ministry of Jesus, rather, like to old Greek gods, it is derived according the immediate and fluctuating whims of some unknowable divinity. Good is redefined in such a way that God can do evil, and that to His own Children. The gospel is rendered virtually useless in that prayers are subject to the ever changing and unknowable will of God. Like the ancient religions, god is unknowable, and when these theories are applied, Christianity is little more than a superstition.
The most dangerous aspect of this counterfeit Christianity is that the name, the blood, and the body of Jesus are powerless. A man can exercise faith in the work of Jesus and God can still say "no." This religion tramples the body of Jesus underfoot and considers it meaningless before the throne of God. Today many are sick, feeble, and die young because of this teaching that not only fails to discern the body of the Lord, but it denies that the torture and suffering of the body of our Lord had any effect against the curse of sickness, disease, and death.
Worse than this, the teaching also attempts to render the name of Jesus powerless and meaningless before God. This teaching holds that name of Jesus has no power before God. You can make a request before God that pertains to life and godliness in the name of Jesus, and God can say no! This concept is very close to denying the Lordship of Jesus altogether. We know that the only reason our prayers are answered is because of the authority that resides in the person and name of our Lord Jesus. To imply that His name has no power or authority in heaven is a denial of that Lordship.


(I have compiled volume of information that compares the ancient religions of Greek and Rome to this teaching that is becoming prevalent in modern Christianity. It is truly alarming!)

 

[Anthony]

Only when the words are His and the faith is based on them, will the power be released and God fulfill.

The question is based on the heresy of super-sovereignty... an ancient doctrine that implies that God is so sovereign that He can ignore His own word, ignore the promises His has made, and even ignore the gospel and the name and blood of Jesus. This theory stems primarily from the religions that worshipped the old Roman and Greek gods. These gods could do anything to anyone.... even each other. Men were mere pawns to them. These old gods were super-sovereign, meaning they could do things like cast the righteous into hell and reward the sinners with heaven.
This sort of thought has crept into the modern contemporary church theology in the form of the "general attributes of God." These "general attributes of God" are used to overrule the gospel, the promises of God, and even the name and blood of Jesus. This heresy promotes the idea that faith in the promises of God is somehow "forcing Him" to act. This theory completely guts the principles of faith toward God, the integrity of God, and the ultimate goodness and righteousness of God. These false teachings say that the will of God is not revealed in the Word of God or in the life and ministry of Jesus, rather, like to old Greek gods, it is derived according the immediate and fluctuating whims of some unknowable divinity. Good is redefined in such a way that God can do evil, and that to His own Children. The gospel is rendered virtually useless in that prayers are subject to the ever changing and unknowable will of God. Like the ancient religions, god is unknowable, and when these theories are applied, Christianity is little more than a superstition.
The most dangerous aspect of this counterfeit Christianity is that the name, the blood, and the body of Jesus are powerless. A man can exercise faith in the work of Jesus and God can still say "no." This religion tramples the body of Jesus underfoot and considers it meaningless before the throne of God. Today many are sick, feeble, and die young because of this teaching that not only fails to discern the body of the Lord, but it denies that the torture and suffering of the body of our Lord had any effect against the curse of sickness, disease, and death.
Worse than this, the teaching also attempts to render the name of Jesus powerless and meaningless before God. This teaching holds that name of Jesus has no power before God. You can make a request before God that pertains to life and godliness in the name of Jesus, and God can say no! This concept is very close to denying the Lordship of Jesus altogether. We know that the only reason our prayers are answered is because of the authority that resides in the person and name of our Lord Jesus. To imply that His name has no power or authority in heaven is a denial of that Lordship.


(I have compiled volume of information that compares the ancient religions of Greek and Rome to this teaching that is becoming prevalent in modern Christianity. It is truly alarming!)

Good Points!

Some have turned God's word in a cookbook and recipes

 

[MikeMcK]

Is God required by the laws of words and the power force of faith; to provide you what you request?

No. God isn't required to do anything.

To quote Chesterton: "God does as He pleases and He does it right well".

 

[TheScottsMen]

God's Word is his will. If God promises us something, he does not contradict his own Word. To do so would to be a liar, and God is not.

 

[TheScottsMen]

No. God isn't required to do anything.

To quote Chesterton: "God does as He pleases and He does it right well".

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Im sure glad God stands on his Word. If he doesn't the above scripture is worthless. God does not say,"Ah, sure, I will accept what I said in that verse but not another". When do you hold God to his Word? ON some things? Not others? If God promises Salvation by faith in his son Jesus Christ, we know this because the Word says so, but if God promises healing you say God doesn't need to stand on it? Then why should he on salvation? Maybe he will just change his mind.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

TSM

 

[MikeMcK]

Im sure glad God stands on his Word. If he doesn't the above scripture is worthless. God does not say,"Ah, sure, I will accept what I said in that verse but not another". When do you hold God to his Word? ON some things? Not others? If God promises Salvation by faith in his son Jesus Christ, we know this because the Word says so, but if God promises healing you say God doesn't need to stand on it? Then why should he on salvation? Maybe he will just change his mind.

I think you've misunderstood what I said. I didn't say God didn't keep His word. He does but He does it because of His nature and Who He is, not because He's required to.

 

[victoryword]

No. God isn't required to do anything.

To quote Chesterton: "God does as He pleases and He does it right well".

Mike

Even the great Prince of Preachers, C. H. Spurgeon would strongly disagree with you here. I think you will find this quote from one of his sermons to be very interesting:

On the throne of grace, sovereignty has placed itself under bonds of love. God will do as He wills, but on the mercy seat, He is under bonds of His own making, for He has entered into covenant with Christ, and so into covenant with His chosen. Though God is and ever must be sovereign, He will never break His covenant nor alter the word that has gone out of His mouth. He cannot be false to a covenant of His own making. When I come to God in Christ, to God on the mercy seat, I need not imagine that by any act of sovereignty God will set aside His covenant. That is impossible.

Moreover, on the throne of grace, God is again bound to us by His promises. The covenant contains in it many gracious promises, exceeding great and precious promises. 'Ask, and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you' (Matt. 7:7). Until God said that word or a word to that effect, it was at His own option to hear prayer or not, but it is not so now. If true prayer is offered through Jesus Christ, His truth binds Him to hear it. A man may be perfectly free, but the moment he makes a promise he is not free to break it; and the everlasting God will not break His promise. He delights to fulfill it.​

from The Power of Prayer in a Believer's Life (Lynnwood, WA: Emerald Books), pp. 27-28​

Now you don't want to dispute the prince of preachers, now do ya' Mike? ​

 

[victoryword]

Is God required by the laws of words and the power force of faith; to provide you what you request?

Anthony, this is a good (and challenging) question. Hobart has provided some excellent insights. (Hobart, if you have your research in book or paper I would like a copy. I am doing research on the same subject).

I want to balance it out by saying that we need to be careful in thinking that God MUST react to our "words" due to some "force of faith." Ernest J. Gruen, who is a Word-Faith Teacher, and who teaches strongly on positive confession, says it better than me:

"In our understanding of faith and mouth confession, we have to be careful not to try to manipulate God. Our sole concept of prayer should never be give me, give me, give. We must learn God's balance between believing His Word and confessing it, or asking for many things based on our own self interest. If we do get out of balance, and God doesn't come through in answer to our "give me" prayers, we become depressed, beligerant, or worse yet, disillusioned...... We must be careful not to develop a 'Jehovah is my servant' psychology, a 'Get with it God' mentality. God is not our whim-satisfier, or fairy god mother." - from his book, Freedom To Grow (Springdale, PA: Whitaker House, 1983) pp. 53, 54

I agree with Gruen 100%. Of course these are NOT the balanced Word-Faith quotes that you will find on the many heresy hunter sites.

Nonetheless, there are laws of the spirit as is seen from Scripture. For example, the Bible teachers that life and death is in the power of the tongue (Prov. 18:21). The Bible talks about the laws of sowing and reaping (2 Cor. 9). Proverbs is full of these "cause and effect" truths that God has established in the universe. If you do certain things you reap certain results.

Unfortunately, the false view of God's sovereignty (as Hobart so eloquently alluded to) has taken away man's responsibility and placed the whole blame on God. God is blamed for good or ill. This is not to say that everytime something happens to us, it is due to the following or breaking of some spiritual law, but we should certainly consider this in our theology since the Bible makes emphasis on this.

Now as far as faith is concerned, it can be considered a force in the sense that God makes His omnipotent power available through faith:

I pray that you will begin to understand the incredible greatness of his power for us who believe him. This is the same mighty power (Eph. 1:19; NLT)

And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. (Mark 11:22-23)

The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. (James 5:16b; RSV)

The KJV uses the word "availeth" in James 5:16. According to The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon, availeth means "to be a force, avail". So it is not wrong to say that faith is a force, as long as we define our terms.

There are spiritual laws concerning words and faith is a force in a sense. As long as we do not put our faith in laws or our faith in faith, recognizing that our faith should be in the One who established these laws and who is the object of our faith, I think we'll be alright

 

[MikeMcK]

Now you don't want to dispute the prince of preachers, now do ya' Mike?

As usual, you didn't read my post.

 

[victoryword]

Yes I did, that's why I gave you the Spurgeon quote that disputed your view.

 

[MikeMcK]

Yes I did, that's why I gave you the Spurgeon quote that disputed your view.

No, you didn't. If you had, you would have seen that Charlie and I are in agreement on this. As usual, you didn't dispute anything.

 

[victoryword]

Mike, you said: No. God isn't required to do anything.

Chuck said: Until God said that word or a word to that effect, it was at His own option to hear prayer or not, but it is not so now.

Mike, it sounds to me that you and Chuck Spurge are not saying the same thing. Perhaps it was not your intention to sound like you said something that you did not say when you said it, but what you said sounded like what you meant though you may not have meant it (huff, puff, phew. Glad I got that out).

Anyway, I say that if a person is BOUND to their word, they are REQUIRED to fulfill it. I believe that these are synonymous terms.

 

[MikeMcK]

Mike, you said: No. God isn't required to do anything.

Chuck said: Until God said that word or a word to that effect, it was at His own option to hear prayer or not, but it is not so now.

Mike, it sounds to me that you and Chuck Spurge are not saying the same thing. Perhaps it was not your intention to sound like you said something that you did not say when you said it, but what you said sounded like what you meant though you may not have meant it (huff, puff, phew. Glad I got that out).

Anyway, I say that if a person is BOUND to their word, they are REQUIRED to fulfill it. I believe that these are synonymous terms.

Whatever.

 

[victoryword]

Love ya' Mike

 

[MikeMcK]

Love ya' Mike

Of course you do.

 

[victoryword]

Edited due to the editing of Mike's post

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

It is one thing to say that God will keep to His word, and another thing to say he is 'bound by it'.

God CAN do as He pleases - He is God. When we start placing God in a box, filled with what we expect of Him - He is no longer God.

Does that mean God will change His mind and take back His promises. No - God is good and His promises are true. But that is because of who He is - not because of what He is supposedly 'bound' by. That would be a heretical teaching IMO.

 

[IKTCA]

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