Maturing in Faith

Galatea

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So, I've been feeling very low lately (for a long time, actually) and very weak in faith. Poor in spirit, if you will. Anyway, I listened to a sermon today and there was something beautiful in it that let me gain some perspective. The pastor said that as you mature in faith, you realize that you're not getting better- you see more and more how weak you are and more and more how wonderful Jesus is. So, if anyone is going through a valley, this might help you as it has helped me. He has become very dear to me as of late.

I'm not sure this is the right subforum or not.
 

Godlovesmetwo

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The pastor said that as you mature in faith, you realize that you're not getting better- you see more and more how weak you are and more and more how wonderful Jesus is.
I don't quite get the "not getting better" part. Like a plateau?
 
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Galatea

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I don't quite get the "not getting better" part. Like a plateau?
No, I think he meant the more you mature the more you see how much you need to rely on Christ. You see your own ineptitude, the more you mature. As in you can not be better without Him.
 
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Galatea

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If that is a sign of maturity, then I've had it a long time! :)
I am inept in many things, but thought I was adept at being a Christian. Only, I have found out lately I am inept in this area as well. Especially in the area of loving others in deed and not in word only.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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Only, I have found out lately I am inept in this area as well. Especially in the area of loving others in deed and not in word only.
I'm sure you are above average Galatea! :)
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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i would think messages like that would serve to show that as we learn more about our faith and about what the LORD commands of us, we see more clearly how short of the glory of God we have truly fallen, which is miserably short, and how precious God's mercy in Jesus is to us.

nevertheless, faith without works is still dead.
 
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Just to answer the thread title, I think this is a very important topic. Just because we read the Bible more or go to Church more or even pray more, doesn't make us "great" Christians. There can even be people who live very secular lives that God is more pleased with.
I think we have to pray for humility and repentance everyday. Our egos, our pride are the real enemy. Somehow we have to see that.
 
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Galatea

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Just to answer the thread title, I think this is a very important topic. Just because we read the Bible more or go to Church more or even pray more, doesn't make us "great" Christians. There can even be people who live very secular lives that God is more pleased with.
I think we have to pray for humility and repentance everyday. Our egos, our pride are the real enemy. Somehow we have to see that.
Yes, I think that is the crux, getting rid of pride. The more we see ourselves aright, the less proud we are and the more Jesus is to us.
 
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The pastor said that as you mature in faith, you realize that you're not getting better- you see more and more how weak you are and more and more how wonderful Jesus is.

It's a paradox though, isn't it? Realizing that you're not getting better is, in itself, progress.
 
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Galatea

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It's a paradox though, isn't it? Realizing that you're not getting better is, in itself, progress.
I think there are many paradoxes in Christianity. It is good to know the complete helplessness of the flesh, yet we can do all things in Christ who strengthens us.

Yes, it is progress to no longer be under the delusion that you can save yourself or even improve yourself.
 
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Yes, it is progress to no longer be under the delusion that you can save yourself or even improve yourself.

I think this is similar to the teaching that, "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". And yet, Paul teaches that perfect love casts out all fear. I think the key is that fear is only meant to be the beginning of wisdom. Perhaps, in the beginning we only obey God because we're afraid of being punished. That's not necessarily a bad motivation. But ideally, over time, we'll start to obey not because we're afraid, but because we've come to recognize that God's ways are worth following just because they are right. We're meant to grow out of being motivated by fear, into being motivated by appreciation and respect.

I think the same can be said for recognizing our badness. It's an important part of our spiritual development and something we need to be able to do at any given moment. But I think God doesn't really want an army of dejected followers. I can imagine that this process is probably one of the more unpleasant for God. Who wants to listen to people always putting themselves down? Falling to our knees in tears can be pretty humbling but that action in itself doesn't equate to practical change, which I think is what God would appreciate more than tears and heartfelt prayers.

We need to recognize when we've done wrong, but also to keep in mind that we are created to be good.
 
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Galatea

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I think this is similar to the teaching that, "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". And yet, Paul teaches that perfect love casts out all fear. I think the key is that fear is only meant to be the beginning of wisdom. Perhaps, in the beginning we only obey God because we're afraid of being punished. That's not necessarily a bad motivation. But ideally, over time, we'll start to obey not because we're afraid, but because we've come to recognize that God's ways are worth following just because they are right. We're meant to grow out of being motivated by fear, into being motivated by appreciation and respect.

I think the same can be said for recognizing our badness. It's an important part of our spiritual development and something we need to be able to do at any given moment. But I think God doesn't really want an army of dejected followers. I can imagine that this process is probably one of the more unpleasant for God. Who wants to listen to people always putting themselves down? Falling to our knees in tears can be pretty humbling but that action in itself doesn't equate to practical change, which I think is what God would appreciate more than tears and heartfelt prayers.

We need to recognize when we've done wrong, but also to keep in mind that we are created to be good.
I know what you mean, but I think it is good to remember that you are a sinner, and can't do anything apart from yourself. I like the quote of John Newton's about himself in his old age "I remember two things, what a great sinner I am and what a great Saviour He is." Keeping the knowledge that we are sinners in need of a Saviour makes Him more beautiful. The more we feel our need of Him, the more precious He becomes.

I don't think it is the same as being paralyzed with dejection. There is a danger of "reverse pride" being humiliated rather than humble.

Before he was saved, John Newton was a pretty bad dude- owner or captain of a slave ship and into all kinds of riotous behavior. But after he was saved, he wrote the hymn "Amazing Grace" and became a pastor. In the film Amazing Grace, they have him depicted as a monk type scrubbing the church floor and not ever getting over the fact that he was responsible for the deaths and misery of thousands of Africans. That was THE ONLY part of the film I did not like. He wasn't like that at all. He was married, a pastor, and so kind to a depressed young man, William Cowper, that he became a father figure to him. From what I read, Newton was a happy, and friendly man. He wasn't paralyzed by his sin- crying every day- but he did not forget it.

I don't think we are created to be good, but created to let God's goodness show through us as we have no goodness. To be empty vessels willing to be used by Him. Cracked pots willing to be filled with His light and let the light shine through the cracks.

I have heard "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" mean the reverence if the Lord, not fear as in being scared of God and what He can do. No one who is saved is afraid of God.

Unless the verse is being directed to the unsaved, which it may be. I have not read the context.
 
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I think MANY do in fact come to Christ as a form of "fire insurance" if you will. I don't think that's the best form of preaching, by any means, but it gets the attention of some, maybe, and gets one foot in the door.

Though I do agree that "fear of the Lord" refers largely to reverence ... still, if we don't know Him, we ought to recognize the fact that He COULD destroy us, body and soul.

But I think while many do come in fear, and may labor as servants for a while, and so on ... I also think we can be perfected in love, and when we TRULY know the love of God, we no longer "fear" Him in that way.

There will always be the love, the awe, the reverence ... how can one NOT be amazed at Who God is? But I do think being perfected in love, and knowing HIS love, can result in a deep, unshakeable trust.
 
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