Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate

[Hillsage]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Gods judgment on Isreal reigned down on them during this time. The Kingdom of God came in judgment and wrath. The end of the age of Temple Judaism.

1CO 4:20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21 What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

So are you saying you believe that "a rod" of 'destroying Jerusalem' was the power of the kingdom of God? I believe it was the rod of Rome and her army which did that.

I believe those standing with Jesus, when He spoke of those 'seeing the kingdom before they died' included (in the very next verse, contextually) Peter James and John who saw the supernatural power of the kingdom manifested on the mount of transfiguration. THAT is the context IMO. And as for 'a rod' being the kingdom I lean toward Paul contrasting "a rod" with that of "spirit of gentleness" context above. That lines up with;

ROM 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but RIGHTEOUSNESS and PEACE and JOY in the Holy Spirit;

"Righteousness and peace and joy" seem to line up more with "a spirit of gentleness" than "a rod". But that's just my opinion based upon these scriptures. And, IMO, those who were led of the holy spirit, were the ones who enjoyed the "gentleness", "Peace and JOY" of missing the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Hillsage]

mmm hmmm. Now, you and @Jeff Saunders add in the similar verses from the Gospel of John that we're all so very familiar with and answer the questions I presented back up in post #6.

I'd love to see how far you both get with it and remain consistent in your "charismatically endowed" argumentation ...

You make a good point. We probably will not go very far before we disagree on something doctrinally, even if Jeff is a charismatic. Which is also 'something' that I don't personally even know...yet. I haven't read enough of his posts to know his position on that 'point'. One thing is for sure, being a fundamentalist hasn't proved to be any kind of ticket for a 'one denomination' church either, that's for sure. So your 'point' concerning Jeff/I doesn't make much of 'a point' IMO. But I'll go look again at post #6 and see what we shall see.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1CO 4:20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21 What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

So are you saying you believe that "a rod" of 'destroying Jerusalem' was the power of the kingdom of God? I believe it was the rod of Rome and her army which did that.

I believe those standing with Jesus, when He spoke of those 'seeing the kingdom before they died' included (in the very next verse, contextually) Peter James and John who saw the supernatural power of the kingdom manifested on the mount of transfiguration. THAT is the context IMO. And as for 'a rod' being the kingdom I lean toward Paul contrasting "a rod" with that of "spirit of gentleness" context above. That lines up with;

ROM 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but RIGHTEOUSNESS and PEACE and JOY in the Holy Spirit;

"Righteousness and peace and joy" seem to line up more with "a spirit of gentleness" than "a rod". But that's just my opinion based upon these scriptures. And, IMO, those who were led of the holy spirit, were the ones who enjoyed the "gentleness", "Peace and JOY" of missing the destruction of Jerusalem.

We are reading Jewish literature and the heavy use of idioms and hyperbole. We know unrepentant Isreal will be dealt with the" rod of iron " because Jesus Christ of Nazareth rules with one. Unrepentant Israel rejected His love, gentleness, peace and joy. It is all over the Old Testament and continues through the New until it has been filled. Which it did in 70AD.

 

[Hillsage]

We are reading Jewish literature and the heavy use of idioms and hyperbole. We know unrepentant Isreal will be dealt with the" rod of iron " because Jesus Christ of Nazareth rules with one. Unrepentant Israel rejected His love, gentleness, peace and joy. It is all over the Old Testament and continues through the New until it has been filled. Which it did in 70AD.

Please share your insight of these idioms and hyperboles you apparently put so much weight on here. Your above post says nothing that's backed by one scripture. Actually, not one post on this thread from you, has 'a scripture'.

Rod of iron is only in the bible 4 times. And none of those verses has anything to do with Israel. The one in Psalms is speaking to the kings of the earth, not Israel. The last three of those rod of iron verses are in the book of the Revelation. And I don't think the book of the Revelation talks about ruling over Israel with a rod of iron anywhere. So, I look forward to your unpacked "idiom and hyperbole" response, concerning the SCRIPTURES you are supporting with your 'Hebraic position'.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Please share your insight of these idioms and hyperboles you apparently put so much weight on here. Your above post says nothing that's backed by one scripture. Actually, not one post on this thread from you, has 'a scripture'.

Rod of iron is only in the bible 4 times. And none of those verses has anything to do with Israel. The one in Psalms is speaking to the kings of the earth, not Israel. The last three of those rod of iron verses are in the book of the Revelation. And I don't think the book of the Revelation talks about ruling over Israel with a rod of iron anywhere. So, I look forward to your unpacked "idiom and hyperbole" response, concerning the SCRIPTURES you are supporting with your 'Hebraic position'.

I am sure you are aware that scripture is full of Jewish idioms, hyperbole, imagery ,metaphors etc. Additionally, I am not taking a Hebraic position, I simply try to exercise good hermeneutics with accurate exegesis so that I do not run into the dangers of eisegesis. Blessings

 

[Jeff Saunders]

But so does everyone else. And here we are, with competing interpretations. Why is this the case today?

Is it because some special Christian is reading the Bible and has the Holy Spirit and other Christians don't?

Or is it because one Christian might use a Synchronic approach to reading the Bible while another uses a more Diachronic approach, and yet another resorts to a more individualized, even Existential approach when reading and considering what it is he/she thinks is being read?

I am sorry but I don’t have a clue as to what you are asking.

 

[Hillsage]

But so does everyone else. And here we are, with competing interpretations. Why is this the case today?

Why? Because there is a devil and he has done good work on 'the church'. One religious spirit, from him, and just look at 'how many' different denominations WE HAVE! And, I would say; more of 'those disagreeing denominations' are not "charismatic".....hmmmmm. Obviously any time there are TWO visions that differ, we simply have DI-vision. If our goal is to 'look like Jesus', we're right. If it's to 'look like the smartest theologian', then we're wrong.

Is it because some special Christian is reading the Bible and has the Holy Spirit and other Christians don't?

Actually, I think it is because too many "Christians" aren't allowing 'the bible' to READ THEM. Something that requires the instruction...or conviction from the holy spirit of "Christ in you" our "hope for glory." The "eyes of your understanding" don't become opened by just reading/studying a book of ink and paper. They are opened by illumination.

EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Or is it because one Christian might use a Synchronic approach to reading the Bible while another uses a more Diachronic approach, and yet another resorts to a more individualized, even Existential approach when reading and considering what it is he/she thinks is being read?

I think that too often the brethren are simply too "puffed up", with their knowledge about 'the bible', instead of become more 'grown up'.

PRO 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

As I look at 'too many saints', I see countenances which look more like their faces look pretty 'dull'.

I think that is because many don't understand that the only way that "iron sharpens iron", is if the ANGLE of the 'knife and the steel' is right for 'sharpening'. Too much ANGLE and you will have 'dulling', after the sparks have flown. And another word for ANGLE in this discussion, would be ATTITUDE. If our ATTITUDE isn't at a pitch which will sharpen, then we have failed to come to a living "knowledge of the truth" from the bible, that produces fruit.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am sorry but I don’t have a clue as to what you are asking.

That's fine.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Why? Because there is a devil and he has done good work on 'the church'. One religious spirit, from him, and just look at 'how many' different denominations WE HAVE! And, I would say; more of 'those disagreeing denominations' are not "charismatic".....hmmmmm. Obviously any time there are TWO visions that differ, we simply have DI-vision. If our goal is to 'look like Jesus', we're right. If it's to 'look like the smartest theologian', then we're wrong.

Actually, I think it is because too many "Christians" aren't allowing 'the bible' to READ THEM. Something that requires the instruction...or conviction from the holy spirit of "Christ in you" our "hope for glory." The "eyes of your understanding" don't become opened by just reading/studying a book of ink and paper. They are opened by illumination.

EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,


I think that too often the brethren are simply too "puffed up", with their knowledge about 'the bible', instead of become more 'grown up'.

PRO 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

As I look at 'too many saints', I see countenances which look more like their faces look pretty 'dull'.

I think that is because many don't understand that the only way that "iron sharpens iron", is if the ANGLE of the 'knife and the steel' is right for 'sharpening'. Too much ANGLE and you will have 'dulling', after the sparks have flown. And another word for ANGLE in this discussion, would be ATTITUDE. If our ATTITUDE isn't at a pitch which will sharpen, then we have failed to come to a living "knowledge of the truth" from the bible, that produces fruit.

... I know we'll disagree on how to most realistically read and interpret the Bible, but at least I think we'll all agree that Jesus is the only Way and that other paths lead to destruction.

 

[Hillsage]

I am sure you are aware that scripture is full of Jewish idioms, hyperbole, imagery ,metaphors etc. Additionally, I am not taking a Hebraic position, I simply try to exercise good hermeneutics with accurate exegesis so that I do not run into the dangers of eisegesis. Blessings

If all one does is, learn how to 'run in a small circle', then you probably aren't going "run into" anything.....including good eisegesis. Kind of how I'm feeling, concerning all your posts on this thread so far. Still no scripture, just a lot of 'religious vocabulary' above IMO. But, if memory serves me, that has happened before, to us.

 

[Hillsage]

... I know we'll disagree on how to most realistically read and interpret the Bible, but at least I think we'll all agree that Jesus is the only Way and that other paths lead to destruction.

I totally agree. The only VISION we, as the body of Christ compare US ALL to, is that of "Jesus the Christ".

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Why? Because there is a devil and he has done good work on 'the church'. One religious spirit, from him, and just look at 'how many' different denominations WE HAVE! And, I would say; more of 'those disagreeing denominations' are not "charismatic".....hmmmmm. Obviously any time there are TWO visions that differ, we simply have DI-vision. If our goal is to 'look like Jesus', we're right. If it's to 'look like the smartest theologian', then we're wrong.

Actually, I think it is because too many "Christians" aren't allowing 'the bible' to READ THEM. Something that requires the instruction...or conviction from the holy spirit of "Christ in you" our "hope for glory." The "eyes of your understanding" don't become opened by just reading/studying a book of ink and paper. They are opened by illumination.

EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,


I think that too often the brethren are simply too "puffed up", with their knowledge about 'the bible', instead of become more 'grown up'.

PRO 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

As I look at 'too many saints', I see countenances which look more like their faces look pretty 'dull'.

I think that is because many don't understand that the only way that "iron sharpens iron", is if the ANGLE of the 'knife and the steel' is right for 'sharpening'. Too much ANGLE and you will have 'dulling', after the sparks have flown. And another word for ANGLE in this discussion, would be ATTITUDE. If our ATTITUDE isn't at a pitch which will sharpen, then we have failed to come to a living "knowledge of the truth" from the bible, that produces fruit.

I think it is because we worship a infinite God and we are finite, so God is taking infinite concepts and putting them into finite human language so it’s only a representation of who He is . God cannot be contained in a book. So we have finite minds with a fallen sin nature reading a book that has been translated from a eastern language perspective ( one which the western mindset does not understand)into a western language and we wonder why we have so many different perspective ideas about it? It’s only because God is orchestrating this whole thing that there ever is any unity in the body at all.

 

[Hillsage]

I think it is because we worship a infinite God and we are finite, so God is taking infinite concepts and putting them into finite human language so it’s only a representation of who He is .

I process it differently. So, if you're inclined, I'll take you down the rabbit hole of my thinking. Jesus was a triune being, just like us. He had a spirit, a soul and a body.

Joh 4:24 God is spirit. And The Word gave up His infinite "equality with God" (Phil 2:6) to become a finite "sinful flesh" body. His body was just like the finite sinful flesh natured body that we inherited from Adam.

"God" (infinite) sent "the Word" (infinite) to earth to become the (finite) sinful flesh body of a finite human man. God did that so we could 'relate to and understand the infinite. Jesus said if we've seen visible him, we've seen the invisible God spirit of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

ROM 8:3 For God.....sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh (sinful flesh) but according to the Spirit.

God put the spirit of Christ into that sinful flesh fetus in the womb of Mary. Her 'seed/egg' contribution to the triune man Jesus, was not sinless. That which made 'the WORD become FLESH', is not what made Jesus the son of God. The sinful flesh body is what made him a "son of man". It was the "spirit of Christ" which the Father put into that "Word became flesh and dwelt among us" body, that made Him the "son of God". The same is true of us, after our spirit is born again. Our spirit becomes the holy Spirit of Christ in us. And it is 'that spirit' which makes Jesus the head of His spiritual body. And His many membered body which is US.

God cannot be contained in a book. So we have finite minds with a fallen sin nature reading a book that has been translated from a eastern language perspective ( one which the western mindset does not understand)into a western language and we wonder why we have so many different perspective ideas about it? It’s only because God is orchestrating this whole thing that there ever is any unity in the body at all.

I always say I don't worship 'the book of the LORD, I worship the LORD of the book.

The spirit that inspired men to write scripture, was not an eastern mindset or a western mind set. It was a spirit mindset. And we aren't to be led by a EASTERN or WESTERN mind set. We are to be spirit led when reading the bible.

ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The EASTERN or HEBREW or JEWISH mindsets....all have a "veil" which is "unlifted" concerning "the mind of Christ".

2CO 3:14-16 But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; 16 but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.

I don't need the EAST/WEST thinking of men to unpack the thoughts that God has for me in scripture. I need only that anointing/spirit within me, to lead me into the truth that sets me "free and free indeed."

2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
1CO 6:17* But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I don't care how smart one is. I care how spiritual is he. And my spirit will bear witness to the truth....if I am being led by it....to believe.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I process it differently. So, if you're inclined, I'll take you down the rabbit hole of my thinking. Jesus was a triune being, just like us. He had a spirit, a soul and a body.

Joh 4:24 God is spirit. And The Word gave up His infinite "equality with God" (Phil 2:6) to become a finite "sinful flesh" body. His body was just like the finite sinful flesh natured body that we inherited from Adam.

"God" (infinite) sent "the Word" (infinite) to earth to become the (finite) sinful flesh body of a finite human man. God did that so we could 'relate to and understand the infinite. Jesus said if we've seen visible him, we've seen the invisible God spirit of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

ROM 8:3 For God.....sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh (sinful flesh) but according to the Spirit.

God put the spirit of Christ into that sinful flesh fetus in the womb of Mary. Her 'seed/egg' contribution to the triune man Jesus, was not sinless. That which made 'the WORD become FLESH', is not what made Jesus the son of God. The sinful flesh body is what made him a "son of man". It was the "spirit of Christ" which the Father put into that "Word became flesh and dwelt among us" body, that made Him the "son of God". The same is true of us, after our spirit is born again. Our spirit becomes the holy Spirit of Christ in us. And it is 'that spirit' which makes Jesus the head of His spiritual body. And His many membered body which is US.



I always say I don't worship 'the book of the LORD, I worship the LORD of the book.

The spirit that inspired men to write scripture, was not an eastern mindset or a western mind set. It was a spirit mindset. And we aren't to be led by a EASTERN or WESTERN mind set. We are to be spirit led when reading the bible.

ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The EASTERN or HEBREW or JEWISH mindsets....all have a "veil" which is "unlifted" concerning "the mind of Christ".

2CO 3:14-16 But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; 16 but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.

I don't need the EAST/WEST thinking of men to unpack the thoughts that God has for me in scripture. I need only that anointing/spirit within me, to lead me into the truth that sets me "free and free indeed."

2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
1CO 6:17* But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I don't care how smart one is. I care how spiritual is he. And my spirit will bear witness to the truth....if I am being led by it....to believe.

I don’t know if it was a typo but Jesus was sinless. It says He who knew no sin became sin in our place. So Jesus was sinless and the whole eastern and western thing is only that the eastern mindset thinks different from the western mindset and we often get things wrong because we don’t understand the eastern mindset which is what the Bible was written to. For an example the eastern mindset has no problem with something being eternal until it ends, this makes no sense to us in a western mindset if it’s eternal then it doesn’t end. The New Testament was written in Greek so not only do we have to translate that to English but we need to understand it as the people who it was written to would have understood it and that is often not easy.

 

[jamiec]

On this forum I have seen so many times that this is out of context or that is out of context, my question is this in Matt 7:13-14 most people say it is talking about heaven or hell , but if you look at the context of the chapter Jesus is talking about earthly things, log in your eye, getting bread, fish , knowing people by their fruit ect . I think this is Jesus telling the people He is the narrow gate and by following Him we have life now in this life , not talking at all about heaven. And those who do not follow Him their life will lead to destruction and we can see this every day just look at the destruction that is going on in this world from those who refuse to enter into the narrow gate. So for all of you who use this verse for a heaven or hell verse how is that in context?

STM that every word of that saying ascribed to Jesus can be understood within an OT context. Any application to the NT Church's life is at best secondary, because the saying (if truly as it stands a word of Jesus) was not spoken to Christians originally, but to the Late Second Temple Palestinian Jews who were Jesus' contemporaries. I think the same is true of the Sermon on the Mount.

The reference to "destruction", if not a Christian editorialisation, would lend itself quite naturally to being understood as the calamity of AD 70; though (if the saying be really a word of Jesus Himself) it need not be taken in that sense; for it can be taken to refer to individual disaster. There is no need to see any reference here to destruction in the next life.

The saying:
may have been heard by Jewish hearers of Jesus
> treasured by those Jews, who later became Christians (during Acts ?)
> passed from them to the church for which St Matthew was writing
> passed from that church to the other churches
> and so passed into the life of the whole Church (by 180 AD or so ?).

To understand sayings like this, I think it is useful/important to be aware of the tradition-history of the sayings - as well as of the history of their textual transmission.

 

[jamiec]

What is diachronic ?

synchronic = at the same time, contemporaneous with someone else

diachronic = throughout time, successively in time.

They are both spatial metaphors, applied to time.

 

[Hillsage]

I don’t know if it was a typo but Jesus was sinless.

Not a "typo". You are reading IN something I never said; I never said Jesus sinned. I said He had the same sin nature, of a sinful flesh body that we do. Read what I quoted, from the BIBLE, again;

ROM 8:3 For God.....sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh (sinful flesh) but according to the Spirit.

He "condemned the sin" nature he was born with "in the flesh" of His body. That's why scripture says;

HEB 4:15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

IOW, He was tempted to sin, just like you and me. WHY? The sin nature, that's why..."the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes" BUT He never gave in to committing a sin. And he is the pattern son that we are to be following after. And if you are being led by the same spirit in you, that He had in Him, you too should never sin either. We are told to have the same "mind" that He did concerning sin. SIN IS DEATH ON THE INSTALLMENT PLAN. So don't do it. If you quit wine, woman, cussing etc. what's stopping you from quitting ALL SIN? NOTHING but YOU...oh yeah...and ME. Like Paul said; "though I am not yet PERFECT, I press on to MAKE IT MY OWN."

It says He who knew no sin became sin in our place. So Jesus was sinless and the whole eastern and western thing is only that the eastern mindset thinks different from the western mindset and we often get things wrong because we don’t understand the eastern mindset which is what the Bible was written to.

I personally think my last post just proved, from THE BIBLE, that EASTERN and WESTERN mindsets are a man made stumbling block for the spiritual minded. You have the same spirit leading you that anyone born again has.

I say the above Jeff, after listening to over 200 episodes of 'BEMA podcasts', which really push what you are saying, as well as others, concerning this EAST/WEST mind stuff. I simply disagree with just how important EAST/WEST thinking is, based upon what scripture plainly says, as I quoted earlier. Be SPIRIT LED in your thinking and not MIND LED (whether EAST or WEST).

For an example the eastern mindset has no problem with something being eternal until it ends, this makes no sense to us in a western mindset if it’s eternal then it doesn’t end. The New Testament was written in Greek so not only do we have to translate that to English but we need to understand it as the people who it was written to would have understood it and that is often not easy.

So, do you believe that the eastern orthodox churches are right and western are wrong? What church are you affiliated with? If it's western, then aren't you being...sorry...hypocritical?

I believe that the importance of how one thinks is only relative in how it makes one walk. And I always say; "I'd rather talk it wrong and walk it right, than to talk it right and walk it wrong." If I'm led of the SPIRIT then I don't have to worry about the stinking thinking of my SOUL/mind.

Thoughts?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Not a "typo". You are reading IN something I never said; I never said Jesus sinned. I said He had the same sin nature, of a sinful flesh body that we do. Read what I quoted, from the BIBLE, again;

ROM 8:3 For God.....sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh (sinful flesh) but according to the Spirit.

He "condemned the sin" nature he was born with "in the flesh" of His body. That's why scripture says;

HEB 4:15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

IOW, He was tempted to sin, just like you and me. WHY? The sin nature, that's why..."the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes" BUT He never gave in to committing a sin. And he is the pattern son that we are to be following after. And if you are being led by the same spirit in you, that He had in Him, you too should never sin either. We are told to have the same "mind" that He did concerning sin. SIN IS DEATH ON THE INSTALLMENT PLAN. So don't do it. If you quit wine, woman, cussing etc. what's stopping you from quitting ALL SIN? NOTHING but YOU...oh yeah...and ME. Like Paul said; "though I am not yet PERFECT, I press on to MAKE IT MY OWN."


I personally think my last post just proved, from THE BIBLE, that EASTERN and WESTERN mindsets are a man made stumbling block for the spiritual minded. You have the same spirit leading you that anyone born again has.

I say the above Jeff, after listening to over 200 episodes of 'BEMA podcasts', which really push what you are saying, as well as others, concerning this EAST/WEST mind stuff. I simply disagree with just how important EAST/WEST thinking is, based upon what scripture plainly says, as I quoted earlier. Be SPIRIT LED in your thinking and not MIND LED (whether EAST or WEST).


So, do you believe that the eastern orthodox churches are right and western are wrong? What church are you affiliated with? If it's western, then aren't you being...sorry...hypocritical?

I believe that the importance of how one thinks is only relative in how it makes one walk. And I always say; "I'd rather talk it wrong and walk it right, than to talk it right and walk it wrong." If I'm led of the SPIRIT then I don't have to worry about the stinking thinking of my SOUL/mind.

Thoughts?

Go back to #34 you said Jesus was not sinless. I just went back a reread it to make sure

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Go back to #34 you said Jesus was not sinless. I just went back a reread it to make sure

Never mind you had a comma saying Mary was not sinless