Matthew 24 Checklist: A Preterist Argument

[random person]

Verses 1-3:

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Destruction of the Jerusalem 70 A.D. effectually ended the Jewish Age and rung in the Christian Age. Check!

Verses 9 & 10:

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

The Jewish and Roman persecutions of the infant church during the 1st century. Check!

Verse 14:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Gospel was preached throughout the world, the Roman world that is.


oikoumené

oikoumené: the inhabited earth
Original Word: οἰκουμένη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikoumené
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kou-men'-ay)
Short Definition: the inhabited (Roman) world
Definition: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.
HELPS Word-studies

3625 oikouménē (from 3611 /oikéō, "to inhabit, dwell") – the inhabited earth, i.e. all people living on the inhabited globe.

[3625 (oikoumén&#275 is "the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation, the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world (orbis terrarum), for all outside it was regarded as of no account" (Souter).

3625 (oikoumén&#275 literally means "the inhabited (land)." It was "originally used by the Greeks to denote the land inhabited by themselves, in contrast with barbarian countries; afterward, when the Greeks became subject to the Romans, 'the entire Roman world;' still later, for 'the whole inhabited world' " (WS, 140,141).]

Strong's Greek: 3625. ????????? (oikoumené) -- the inhabited earth

Check!

Verses 15-22:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The land of Judea and the destruction of Jerusalem never experienced a holocaust like this before as the First Jewish-Roman war that occurred between A.D. 66 to A.D. 73. Check!

Verses 27-28:

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Disbelieving Jews will carry on and be unprepared for the Roman armies, different ethnic Jews will ARROGANTLY gather from all the nations round about to celebrate the Passover in Jerusalem and be trapped in Jerusalem while the Judgment of Jesus and the Roman siege will arrive like a thief in the night. Check!

Verses 29:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The state, civil and religious powers of Israel will fall. The Old Heaven and Earth will be shaken, and what will remain is the New Heaven and New Earth. Isaiah 51:15-16; 65:1-17; Hebrews 12:26-28.

For further examples of this prophetic language read these passages:

·Isaiah 13:10, 13—judgment of Babylon (539 B.C.)
·Isaiah 34:4—judgment of Edom (late 6th century B.C.)
·Ezekiel 32:7—judgment of Egypt (568 B.C.)
·Nahum 1:5—judgment of Nineveh (612 B.C.)
·Joel 2:10—judgment of Judah (586 B.C.)
·Amos 8:9—judgment of the northern kingdom (722 B.C.)


Check!

Verse 30:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The New Testament Greek uses the word "ge" to describe both "land" and "earth":


gé

Strong's Concordance

gé: the earth, land
Original Word: γῆ, γῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: gé
Phonetic Spelling: (ghay)
Short Definition: the earth, soil, land
Definition: the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region

The tribes of the land will recognize their judgment and mourn the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, they will recognize the doom Jesus preached all along against Israel had come to pass. That Jesus' cloud judgment had arrived. See Isaiah 19:1 & John 5:19,22. Check!

To Be Continued...

 

[keras]

I agree with you that Matthew 24:1-22 was partially fulfilled in the first century and up to 135 CE.
But where is the historical record of 'the sun darkened, the moon not giving her light and stars falling? That has not happened yet, nor has Jesus returned for His Millennium reign.
Your preterism leads you into wrong beliefs and gives a false sense of security, now as we are so near to the time when these things WILL happen.

 

[random person]

Verse 31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

With the destruction of Jerusalem, the Christian gospel is free from Jewish persecution in Judea and Asia Minor to be preached from one end of heaven to the other end of heaven. God begins to assemble His elect into His kingdom. Check!

Verses 32-33:

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


All the signs came to pass leading up to the Desolation of Abomination and the Destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70. There were false messiahs who claimed they were sent by God to deliver Judea and Jerusalem BY FORCE from the Romans. What happened, the Romans slaughtered them all in the masses. There was an escalation of wars erupting within the borders of Rome at this time. There were also earthquakes, famines, and pestilences that occurred throughout the provinces of Rome in the 1st century too. Check!

Verses 34-35:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Indeed, that generation did not pass til all these things be fulfilled including the passing of Heaven and Earth. See Isaiah 51:15-16; 65:1-17; Hebrews 12:26-28, when God delivered Moses and the Israelites from Egypt and gave them the Law, God created Heaven and earth, a new order of civil and religious government. Check!

 

[random person]

I agree with you that Matthew 24:1-22 was partially fulfilled in the first century and up to 135 CE.
But where is the historical record of 'the sun darkened, the moon not giving her light and stars falling? That has not happened yet, nor has Jesus returned for His Millennium reign.
Your preterism leads you into wrong beliefs and gives a false sense of security, now as we are so near to the time when these things WILL happen.

No, it doesn't, Preterism leads to optimism. It is an eschatology of victory, not of defeat nor inspires armchair prophets of doom nor does it teach fear of the future. God is sovereign afterall. It is the unshakable belief that the Christian Age is unshakable (Hebrews 12:28) and indeed it is the world without end (Ephesians 3:21).

Learn prophetic language, the Olivet Discourse is almost entirely metaphoric.

·Isaiah 13:10, 13—judgment of Babylon (539 B.C.)
·Isaiah 34:4—judgment of Edom (late 6th century B.C.)
·Ezekiel 32:7—judgment of Egypt (568 B.C.)
·Nahum 1:5—judgment of Nineveh (612 B.C.)
·Joel 2:10—judgment of Judah (586 B.C.)
·Amos 8:9—judgment of the northern kingdom (722 B.C.)

Do you read these passages literally? I hope not because they already were fulfilled so was the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Rev20]

I agree with you that Matthew 24:1-22 was partially fulfilled in the first century and up to 135 CE.
But where is the historical record of 'the sun darkened, the moon not giving her light and stars falling? That has not happened yet, nor has Jesus returned for His Millennium reign.

The stars falling? Can you imagine how long the earth would last if a single star actually fell from the sky? Frankly, the earth would be destroyed by gravitational forces long before the star even got close. Even the smallest star has enormous mass.

Fortunately, stars in the Bible represent things other than heavenly bodies. The sons of Jacob were stars in Joseph's dream (Gen 37:9); stars in the Revelation represent angels (Rev 1:20,) and even Christ (Rev 22:16); and there was Antiochus IV, in Daniel 8:10, who cast some stars down to the ground. LOL!

Of course, it could have happened like this:

1. The stars were "shooting stars", or meteorites, which we see on a regular basis.

2. The sun could be darkened by an eclipse, or even a cloud blanket from a volcanic eruption.

3. The moon fails to give her light on a regular basis.

But, more than likely, the stars represent the leaders and/or holy people of Israel, as they did in the days of Antiochus (Daniel 8:24.)
.

Your preterism leads you into wrong beliefs and gives a false sense of security, now as we are so near to the time when these things WILL happen.

Dispensationalism gives Christians a false sense of security, Keras; not to mention all sorts of false prophesies based on little more than the vivid imaginations of dreamers.


.

 

[Interplanner]

There's also the confusing sense of the judgement of God. I just don't know what a set of battles in the middle east has to do with the final judgement of planet earth before the new world takes the place of the old.

 

[keras]

Hey yes, preterism is a comfortable belief. Its all happened, so we can relax and keep up our complacent lifestyle. Jesus may drop in onto our manicured front lawn!
I suggest Alfred E. Newman's motto for preterists: What! me worry?

Re the 'stars' mentioned in Rev. 6:13 - an event yet to happen, as associated with a probable meteor shower, the sky will roll up like a scroll and every mountain and island will move from their place. Isaiah 34:4, 2 Peter 3:10
BTW, my imagination is nowhere near vivid enough to compare with what the prophesies tell us will happen. I just point them out because you and many others seem incapable of comprehending them.

IP, there will be no 'battles in the Middle East'. All the prophesies tell of how the Lord will send His judgement/punishment onto those who attack His holy Land.

 

[iamlamad]

There's also the confusing sense of the judgement of God. I just don't know what a set of battles in the middle east has to do with the final judgement of planet earth before the new world takes the place of the old.

Why would you be confused when Revelation spells out clearly what is coming? What set of battles has you wondering? This age we are living in is going to END. In fact, this will end 6000 years of man's rule on earth and will usher in God's rule. What is coming is going to be somewhat like the great flood. It was the end of all lives save eight people. This time it will not be quite that bad, but the world population of billions will be millions when it is over. God is going to judge sin. He has held off this judgment about as long as He can.

I am convinced what is coming will be pretty much worldwide, not just Middle East. However, Israel is in the Middle East, and the Beast of Revelation 13 will make his HQ in Jerusalem - so OF COURSE much of what is coming will take place there.

 

[Rev20]

Hey yes, preterism is a comfortable belief. Its all happened, so we can relax and keep up our complacent lifestyle. Jesus may drop in onto our manicured front lawn!
I suggest Alfred E. Newman's motto for preterists: What! me worry?

You really need to get better informed, Keras. I am a partial preterist who believes in a future final judgement for everyone ("every knee shall bow"); but not until we all experience the "hell" of Satan's deceit (Rev 20:7-10.) But since no one knows when that will happen, I will continue to be a good steward of the faith right here on earth, and not waste my time and God-given talents by dreaming about being swept away from it all in some mysterious "rapture."
.

Re the 'stars' mentioned in Rev. 6:13 - an event yet to happen, as associated with a probable meteor shower, the sky will roll up like a scroll and every mountain and island will move from their place. Isaiah 34:4, 2 Peter 3:10

Christ informs us in the very first chapter that the book is symbolic:

"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." -- Rev 1:20​

Christ continued to confirm the use of symbols throughout the book; for example, in this passage a "star" is called "him", and to "him" (the "star") was given the key to the bottomless pit:

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit." -- Rev 9:1​

Could that star also be an angel, Keras?

Don't believe anyone who tells you the book of the Revelation is written literally. They are only guessing, and from what I have just shown you, they are probably guessing wrong.
.

BTW, my imagination is nowhere near vivid enough to compare with what the prophesies tell us will happen. I just point them out because you and many others seem incapable of comprehending them.

Do you still believe "stars" are stars (or meteorites,) and not men or angels, Keras? I hope not.
.

IP, there will be no 'battles in the Middle East'. All the prophesies tell of how the Lord will send His judgement/punishment onto those who attack His holy Land.

The "Holy Land" in Revelation 20:9 is the Church.

 

[iamlamad]

You really need to get better informed, Keras. I am a partial preterist who believes in a future final judgement for everyone ("every knee shall bow"); but not until we all experience the "hell" of Satan's deceit (Rev 20:7-10.) But since no one knows when that will happen, I will continue to be a good steward of the faith right here on earth, and not waste my time and God-given talents by dreaming about being swept away from it all in some mysterious "rapture."
.



Christ informs us in the very first chapter that the book is symbolic:

"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." -- Rev 1:20​

Christ continued to confirm the use of symbols throughout the book; for example, in this passage a "star" is called "him", and to "him" (the "star") was given the key to the bottomless pit:

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit." -- Rev 9:1​

Could that star also be an angel, Keras?

Don't believe anyone who tells you the book of the Revelation is written literally. They are only guessing, and from what I have just shown you, they are probably guessing wrong.
.



Do you still believe "stars" are stars (or meteorites,) and not men or angels, Keras? I hope not.
.



The "Holy Land" in Revelation 20:9 is the Church.

Sorry, but Jesus did not tell us the entire book was symbolic. He only gave some parts of the vision that were symbolic. Other parts of the book are very literal.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.


NOTHING symbolic about these verses. They are what John heard and saw. WE have to use wisdom to determine what should be taken as symbolic. If too much is taken as symbolic, a preterest is formed! If too little, nonsense becomes a theory. In general, if it makes good sense in its literal sense, believe it and don't make it a symbol for something else.

 

[parousia70]

Sorry, but Jesus did not tell us the entire book was symbolic. He only gave some parts of the vision that were symbolic. Other parts of the book are very literal.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.


NOTHING symbolic about these verses.

Really? Nothing?
Not even this:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Which is it?
Seven literal lamps of fire or seven literal spirits of God?

 

[random person]

Hey yes, preterism is a comfortable belief. Its all happened, so we can relax and keep up our complacent lifestyle. Jesus may drop in onto our manicured front lawn!
I suggest Alfred E. Newman's motto for preterists: What! me worry?

Re the 'stars' mentioned in Rev. 6:13 - an event yet to happen, as associated with a probable meteor shower, the sky will roll up like a scroll and every mountain and island will move from their place. Isaiah 34:4, 2 Peter 3:10
BTW, my imagination is nowhere near vivid enough to compare with what the prophesies tell us will happen. I just point them out because you and many others seem incapable of comprehending them.

IP, there will be no 'battles in the Middle East'. All the prophesies tell of how the Lord will send His judgement/punishment onto those who attack His holy Land.

So now stars aren't really stars but meteorites? So when we look into the heavens we aren't observing distant stars.

A single star is larger in mass than the earth. One star would turn earth into dust.

You should read ancient writings of the Egyptians, how they often spoke of states, religious and civil governments as stars, the sun, and the moon. This is how the ancient near east spoke of their gods and ancient states. How their gods were going to cover the heavens in sackclothes, shake the earth, split mountains, and cast the stars of heaven down to the earth. This was a very common metaphoric language of the day. Well, the Spirit-inspired writers of the Bible spoke with the same language of many of its contemporaries or their predecessors by a 1,000 or more years. In fact, the Egyptian and other writings are in fact older than the writings of the prophets of the Old Testament. Did the prophets borrow that very same language of living hieroglyphs of the Egyptian prophecies? Most certainly.

 

[random person]

Predictive and Prophetic Literature: Can Neferti Help us Read the Bible? (2010)


Neferti has itself often been labelled as a prophetic text, usually now just because it revolves around a predictive speech, rather than because it is taken to reflect somehistorical practice of prophecy in Egypt.

Egyptologists also sometimes put it in the category of wisdom literature, a fact which is less significant than it sounds, since thedesignation carries less baggage (and is used even more promiscuously) in that discipline than in biblical studies.

Formally, like most early Egyptian literature, it consists of a speech set within a narrative context, and it is probably best simply tothink of it in those terms for the time being. The narrative context is the court of King Snefru of the Fourth Dynasty, so the story is set during the first half of the 26th century BCE. After his council has completed its daily meeting with the king and is leaving, Snefru recalls them, and asks them to find someone clever who can provide him with an entertaining speech. They nominate a chief lector priest called Neferti,who is brought into the royal presence, and asked to speak some fine words for the king. When he asks whether the king wants to hear about the past or future, Snefru chooses the future, and Neferti proceeds to paint a picture of Egypt fallen into a terrible decline, which the king himself records as Neferti speaks. Under attack from foreigners, with its government displaced, the country is destroyed,and in need of re-creation. The sun is obscured, and the Sun-god cut off, the winds locked in an impasse the river and fishpools dried out. In the meantime, Asiatics stroll comfortably into all strongholds, while social protections and constraints have broken down, with every man struggling for himself, wealth going to those who have not earned it, and social roles reversed. Into this situation comes a king from the south, named Ameny (the hidden one), who restores order, and re-establishes protection for the land, building a fortress called The Walls of the Ruler. The poem, and the work, conclude with Neferti’s forecast that posterity will offer him libations when they see the accuracy of his predictions. And well they might, indeed: if things were not quite as bad as all that before the rise of the Twelfth Dynasty, he does, with fair accuracy, foresee the coming of that dynasty’s founder, Amenemhet I, who built‘ The Walls of the Ruler. We might even describe the prediction as uncanny, were it not that this whole work was written no earlier than Amenemhet’s reign, in the late 20th century BCE, and merely set back in the distant past. Like much literature from the early Middle Kingdom, it is, in part at least, intended to promote the interests of the ruling dynasty.

Predictive and Prophetic Literature: Can Neferti Help us Read the Bible? (2010) | Stuart Weeks - Academia.edu

 

[Rev20]

Sorry, but Jesus did not tell us the entire book was symbolic. He only gave some parts of the vision that were symbolic. Other parts of the book are very literal.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

NOTHING symbolic about these verses. They are what John heard and saw.

So, the seven lamps of fire are seven literal lamps of fire? The same verse identifies them as seven spirits?

John said: "And immediately I was in the spirit…" Therefore, that was a 100% spiritual setting, in heaven. There was absolutely nothing physical about it.

That is the case throughout the Revelation: you will find John in the spirit, seeing spiritual representations of heaven and earth. Even the angel Jesus sent to John in the first chapter was a spirit:

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," -- Rev 1:10​

.

WE have to use wisdom to determine what should be taken as symbolic. If too much is taken as symbolic, a preterest is formed! If too little, nonsense becomes a theory. In general, if it makes good sense in its literal sense, believe it and don't make it a symbol for something else.

You are claiming superior wisdom? Now that is funny!

I have never met a wise man who claims to be wise; but I am reminded of this verse everything I am confronted with self-proclaimed wisdom:

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him." -- Pro 26:12​

Now, there is some wisdom you can "take to the bank."

 

[Rev20]

Really? Nothing?
Not even this:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Which is it?
Seven literal lamps of fire or seven literal spirits of God?

LOL! Honest, I didn't plagarize in my previous post.

 

[parousia70]

LOL! Honest, I didn't plagarize in my previous post.

Simple Truth has a way of getting around...

 

[iamlamad]

Really? Nothing?
Not even this:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Which is it?
Seven literal lamps of fire or seven literal spirits of God?

Sorry, I missed that one little symbolic phrase! Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[iamlamad]

So, the seven lamps of fire are seven literal lamps of fire? The same verse identifies them as seven spirits?

John said: "And immediately I was in the spirit…" Therefore, that was a 100% spiritual setting, in heaven. There was absolutely nothing physical about it.

That is the case throughout the Revelation: you will find John in the spirit, seeing spiritual representations of heaven and earth. Even the angel Jesus sent to John in the first chapter was a spirit:

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," -- Rev 1:10​

.



You are claiming superior wisdom? Now that is funny!

I have never met a wise man who claims to be wise; but I am reminded of this verse everything I am confronted with self-proclaimed wisdom:

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him." -- Pro 26:12​

Now, there is some wisdom you can "take to the bank."

So you don't think when someone is "in the Spirit" that they can see "natural" and non-symbolic things? Have you ever been "in the Spirit?"



Originally Posted by iamlamad
WE have to use wisdom to determine what should be taken as symbolic. If too much is taken as symbolic, a preterest is formed! If too little, nonsense becomes a theory. In general, if it makes good sense in its literal sense, believe it and don't make it a symbol for something else.

You are claiming superior wisdom? Now that is funny!

You don't read very well. I wrote, "WE" which includes all on this thread. The truth is, anyone who would write:

"you are claiming superior wisdom. Now that is funny,"

is demonstrating that HE OR SHE thinks THEY have superior wisdom.

 

[Rev20]

So you don't think when someone is "in the Spirit" that they can see "natural" and non-symbolic things? Have you ever been "in the Spirit?"

Have you?

You don't read very well. I wrote, "WE" which includes all on this thread. The truth is, anyone who would write:
"you are claiming superior wisdom. Now that is funny,"
is demonstrating that HE OR SHE thinks THEY have superior wisdom.

I read very well. You have conveniently forgotten you have a track record of exhibiting self-righteousness and claiming superior interpretive skills. Now, you are pretending superior wisdom, or you would not have stated it in the manner you stated it. Did you not learn from childhood that wise men never claim to be wise?

This is what you wrote, in context:

"NOTHING symbolic about these verses. They are what John heard and saw. WE have to use wisdom to determine what should be taken as symbolic. If too much is taken as symbolic, a preterest is formed! If too little, nonsense becomes a theory. In general, if it makes good sense in its literal sense, believe it and don't make it a symbol for something else."​

That comes across as the "wise man" scolding a "little child." One generally hears that kind of arrogance only from creepy televangelists. LOL!

 

[Rev20]

Sorry, I missed that one little symbolic phrase! Thanks for pointing that out.

You missed more than that one, il. The Revelation of Jesus Christ is loaded with symbolism.