Matthew 24:36

[Wiccan_Child]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

 

[98cwitr]

I believe they are separate entities, but possess a multitude of abilities based on their roles.

Jesus != God
Jesus = God's Son

The only way to get to God, to receive the Spirit, to obtain salvation, is through Jesus Christ (John 14)

Jesus is the mandatory middleman so to speak.

 

[Standing Up]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

Phil. 2:5-8 Have this attitude in [fn] yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [fn] but emptied [fn] Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on [fn] a cross.

See?

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

To answer this, would take us elsewhere than your other question.

 

[student ad x]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

Jesus was fully man and fully God. As a man, he was tempted by all things men are tempted by; and had needs as men need - he thirst, hungered etc. In this verse, Jesus is speaking in human terms as a man answering the question of timing (vs 3) by giving all authority to the Father's purpose & will.

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

The verse is also in Mark 13:32 and is not in dispute amongst the many manuscripts. "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "

 

[ephraimanesti]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

MY DEAR SISTER,

Our Lord in His human incarnation became perfect God AND perfect Man. To become perfect Man He waved all His Divine prerogatives in order to surrender perfectly to His Father as each one of us is called to do.

By waving these Divine attributes--in this case God's Power of all knowledge--He became as any other man--depending entirely on the Father for wisdom, knowledge, and guidance. Thus, in His humanity He only "knew" that knowledge which the Father wished to impart to Him and, through Him, to us. The time of His return was not among these.

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

The vast majority translate this passage as given. i found only a couple out of the 24 versions i have available which left out "and the Son." One of these had "and the Son" given in parenthesis. i do not know the reason for this other than the notation that "some original manuscripts omit 'and the Son.' "

i can't defend against your charge of "dishonesty" although i sincerely doubt it. Cheating with Scriptures is a meaningless and unChristian undertaking, and i don't believe any of the translators would do so purposefully--except, of course, in the case of "The New World Translation" where the attempt is made to change the basic doctrines and beliefs of Christianity. There is, however, no basic doctrine or belief involved here so i hold the aberrations to be of no great importance--in spite of the tendencies for atheists to jump on every uncrossed "T" and undotted "I" as "proof" of the Bible's errancy or falsification.

MAY YOUR EASTER BE BLESSED WITH TRUTH,
ephraim

 

[drich0150]

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

If you look at the word "God" as a title and not a name then when you speak of the three distinct persons of the trinity, you have the opportunity to see the true nature of God.

God the Father

God the Son

God the Holy Spirit

The reason the three seem to be 3 distinct personalities, is because they are.

Starting with God the Father above all He is God first, and He takes on the role as a heavenly Father.

God the Son above all else is God first, and still He takes on the role of the Father's Son.

God the Holy Spirit is above all else God First, and takes on the role of the "Holy Spirit" of God in our personal Lives. He is the part of the trinity we can have indwell within our hearts.

They are distinct, but are all still equally God.

It's Kinda like the three branches of Government in the United States. There is only one governing body, but there are the separate but equal bodies that make up the governing body of the United states. The Executive Branch (the President and his cabinet) The Legislative branch (The Senate and The House,) And the Judaical Branch. All takes all Three Bodies to make up the government. all three are separate, yet there is still only one government in the US.

 

[dobieman0488]

It's because while Jesus was on earth, he was God incarnate he was also a human, so he set aside a lot of his rigths as god, which included the right to know when certain things will happen

 

[zaksmummy]

In this passage Jesus is alluding to a Jewish wedding. It was customary for Jewish teenagers to marry ages 18ish. It would take about a year from the formal engagement until the wedding day. Both bride and groom would preapre - the groom would build a room on his fathers house for himself and his new bride. WHen it was finished or very near completion, the grooms father would announce the wedding and they would go to the brides house to fetch herfor the wedding. Please not - the groom did not know when the wedding would be until the time that his father decided.

Now does Jesus know? I dont know. In other passages hs says that he and the Father are One.

Some things with God are a mystery and thats how he likes to keep it. I trust in him and that is enough for me. You have to decided for yourself if it is enough for you.

 

[ebia]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

In order for Jesus' incarnation to mean anything he needs to be fully human, with all the limitations that go with that; to set aside the perks of being God to become fully human.

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

Early manuscripts disagree about the clause, different translators make different judgement calls on it:

1 tc ‡ Some important witnesses, including early Alexandrian and Western mss (א*,2 B D Θ Ë13 pc it vgmss Irlat Hiermss), have the additional words οὐδὲ ὁ υἱός (oude Jo Juios, “nor the son”) here. Although the shorter reading (which lacks this phrase) is suspect in that it seems to soften the prophetic ignorance of Jesus, the final phrase (“except the Father alone”) already implies this. Further, the parallel in Mark 13:32 has οὐδὲ ὁ υἱός, with almost no witnesses lacking the expression. Hence, it is doubtful that the absence of “neither the Son” is due to the scribes. In keeping with Matthew’s general softening of Mark’s harsh statements throughout his Gospel, it is more likely that the absence of “neither the Son” is part of the original text of Matthew, being an intentional change on the part of the author. Further, this shorter reading is supported by the first corrector of א as well as L W Ë1 33 Ï vg sy co Hiermss. Admittedly, the external evidence is not as impressive for the shorter reading, but it best explains the rise of the other reading (in particular, how does one account for virtually no mss excising οὐδὲ ὁ υἱός at Mark 13:32 if such an absence here is due to scribal alteration? Although scribes were hardly consistent, for such a theologically significant issue at least some consistency would be expected on the part of a few scribes). Nevertheless, NA27 includes οὐδὲ ὁ υἱός here.
NETBible: Matthew 24:36

(The NET bible has all its translators' notes on-line so its a good free resource for quick look at such questions).

 

[Van]

Hi Wiccan Child, you wrote: "This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?"

1) This verse is consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity.

2) Yes, the Father knows things the incarnate Son does not know. Also the Father and the incarnate Son are separate persons, so the Bible records many times that the Father and the Son engaged in conversation.

3) Jesus is God, see John 1:1-14.

4) Yes it is dishonest to either rewrite the text or to mistranslate the text in order to make it conform to one's own belief system. However that did not occur here, the manuscripts used to prepare the King James Version did not contain "nor the Son" but other (older) manuscripts do contain the phrase. However the ommision (or addition) is moot because the only way to read "the Father only" excludes the Son.

 

[hlaltimus]

This is a question about the trinity.

Matthew 24:36 - "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

This would seem to imply that the Father knows things that the Son does not, which suggests to me they are wholly separate consciousnesses.

How do you, as Christians, understand this verse as it relates to the "Jesus is God" idea?

Interestingly, some versions of the Bible omit the phrase "nor the Son". Isn't it a little dishonest to rewrite the Bible to fit one's own religious beliefs, rather than basing them on Scripture?

Hi. I didn't read everything that others replied, so forgive me if someone already hit on this:

This passage isn't really all that hard to understand, and yes, Jesus Christ is divinely omniscient just as His Father is divinely omniscient, and yet He, (Christ Jesus,) really doesn't know the exact time of His own coming!!! This is absolutely an amazing and wonderful enigma to probe, and may best be conceived of under an illustration which follows, just as Jesus himself used parables to represent different truths. The principle of the illustration though is:

God's infinite attributes lay primarily in possession, and only manifestly in exercise.

All three members of the Trinity are truly and properly divine, and therefore both infinite and eternal in those attributes, knowledge being one of them, which is also termed "omniscience". However, their claim to infiniteness in knowledge lays primarily in the possession of that infinite knowledge, and does not depend necessarily upon the exercise of that knowledge, and this truth also applies to other infinite attributes such as omnipresence and omnipotence, etc. Here is where a feeble and imperfect illustration might help though:

Suppose that 3 Brothers inherited $1,000,000 each, or $3,000,000 total dispersed perfectly amongst all three evenly. This is crudely meant to represent the members of the Trinity, except that they never "got" something which was already theirs. Now, Brother #1 invests 100% of his million dollars, Brother #2 invests 50% of his million dollars, and Brother #3 invests none of his million dollars.
Question: Which one of the 3 Brothers is a millionaire? All of them of course! Isn't it obvious? Their claim to being millionaires lays only in the possession of a million dollars, and does not depend in the least upon their use of that million dollars. Whether they should choose to invest all, some, or none of those million dollars, doesn't have the least effect upon altering their status of being millionaires, because that claim is rightfully theirs by simply having such a sum, whether they use it or not.

This is an awesome consideration in regards to the holy Trinity. Jesus Christ has and has always had resident within Him, an infinite capacity to know all that is possible to be known in this or any other realm, without exception. But, just like the millionaire who invested only some of his million dollars, Christ is not obligated to exercise 100% of his omniscience in order to continue to be what He has always been...omniscient. Simply being a Being who could know such perfectly extensive knowledge if He wished to, entitles Him to the claim of divine omniscience, just as God the Father or God the Holy Spirit could likewise claim, whether they fully and perfectly exercise their ability or not.
Then is it possible for God to be ignorant in any particular area of knowledge? Impossible...for by the unity that exists within the Trinity, the fact that God the Father does in fact know the precise date of His Son's return, it can still be accurately said that "God does know when the second coming will exactly occur", even though God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have elected to not exercise their omniscience. Since the knowledge of the time of that great event is still technically resident within God Almighty corporate, this difference within the individual members does not imply that God in unity is uninformed of the slightest or most minute occurrence in any world or at any time. Jesus Christ is truly divine, and by being divine, He is also morally perfect both in His divinity and in His humanity. However, He is by choosing to not know something which He could easily have otherwise known, proving that as the ascended and glorified Son of David, he still knows how to humble Himself, and by so doing continue His peerless and lustrous career of setting an example of what true godliness is for us. What a solitary, splendid, mysterious and magnificent Redeemer.