Matthew 2:15 quotes Hosea 11:1 out of context?

[tonychanyt]

Hosea 11:

1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt, I called my son. 2 But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images.

Hosea was talking about the rebellious nature of the Israelites.

Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus:

[Egypt] where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

Did Matthew quote Hosea out of context?

Yes, I think so according to our modern sense of scholarship.

One can find quite a few such instances where the NT writers didn't cite the OT scriptures properly. What were they thinking?

In Jewish hermeneutics, there are four levels of interpretive principles:

1. Peshat is the simple, obvious, literal meaning of a biblical text.
2. Remez (hint) is the typological or allegorical interpretation.
3. Derash digs deeper to search for the intent of the divine author of the text.
4. Sod unveils the secret mystical meanings.

Context does not deter one from searching for the deeper truth. Moreover, Jesus encouraged his disciples to read the Messiah into the OT, Luke 24:

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Did Matthew quote Hosea properly?

Yes, according to Jewish hermeneutics.

Another case can be found when Jesus quoted Isaiah in Luke 4:

19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Here is the original context, Isaiah 61:2

to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of our God's vengeance, to comfort all who mourn

Jesus didn't continue the verse and mentioned God's vengeance because the year of the LORD'S favor and the day of our God's vengeance are two distinct and separate events. They are his first and second comings.

Did Jesus quote Isaiah properly?

Yes, according to Jewish hermeneutics.

Paul did similarly in 1 Cor 9:

9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop.

Did Paul quote Moses properly?

Yes, according to Jewish hermeneutics.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hosea 11:

Hosea was talking about the rebellious nature of the Israelites.

Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus:

Did Matthew quote Hosea out of context?

No.

Just as God called His people out of Egypt, He called His only begotten Son out of Egypt.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Did Matthew quote Hosea out of context?

Yes, I think so according to our modern sense of scholarship.

Therefore, that Modern way is wrong.

 

[tonychanyt]

Therefore, that Modern way is wrong.

By "therefore" do you mean it in the First-Order Logical sense?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

By "therefore" do you mean it in the First-Order Logical sense?

Not sure what that means.

 

[tonychanyt]

Not sure what that means.

See First-Order Logic and follow up there.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

See First-Order Logic and follow up there.

I read the thread, and it still doesn't make sense. Speaking regular is important.

Furthermore, inventing labels so you can dismiss or red herring arguments is not very nice.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus did it, therefore it is correct.

Thus, anything saying Jesus is wrong is incorrect.

So the modern way is wrong.

 

[tonychanyt]

I read the thread, and it still doesn't make sense. Speaking regular is important.

Furthermore, inventing labels so you can dismiss or red herring arguments is not very nice.

Did you read the part that says:

People who are not trained in FOL tend to overgeneralize and jump to conclusions​

​

That's what you did with your "Therefore" and "Furthermore, inventing labels so you can dismiss or red herring arguments is not very nice".

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus:

I would say you are treading on thin ice.

 

[tonychanyt]

I would say you are treading on thin ice.

Can you elaborate specifically?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Did you read the part that says:

People who are not trained in FOL tend to overgeneralize and jump to conclusions​

​

That's what you did with your "Therefore" and "Furthermore, inventing labels so you can dismiss or red herring arguments is not very nice".

FOL doesn't exist, it is made up.

To get back to the point of the thread: Jesus did not quote Hosea out of context. Modern interpretation method is incorrect.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Can you elaborate specifically?

Saying "Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus" is on the edge of acceptability, maybe a little over the edge.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saying "Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus" is on the edge of acceptability, maybe a little over the edge.

It reminds me of the way muslims read the bible: The author wrote this, but it wasn't something Jesus said.

 

[tonychanyt]

FOL doesn't exist, it is made up.

Brother, see First-order logic - Wikipedia. That's how mathematicians do their thinking.

To get back to the point of the thread: Jesus did not quote Hosea out of context.

Did I say that Jesus quoted Hosea out of context?

Modern interpretation method is incorrect.

Did I say that modern interpretation method is correct?

Please read my OP again.

 

[tonychanyt]

Saying "Matthew cites Hosea out of context in Matthew 2:15 and applies it to Jesus" is on the edge of acceptability, maybe a little over the edge.

What is the context in Hosea?

What is the context in Matthew 2:15?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Brother, see First-order logic - Wikipedia. That's how mathematicians do their thinking.


Did I say that Jesus quoted Hosea out of context?


Did I say that modern interpretation method is correct?

Please read my OP again.

But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. (Matthew 5:37)

 

[tonychanyt]

But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. (Matthew 5:37)

Was that a yes or no from you? Sorry that I am slow, please make your point explicit.

 

[Fervent]

Depends what you mean by "context," since there's not only the direct literary context but also the context of midrashic discussion. So while it is out of context for a rigid view of what context means, it was within the context of how the verse was understood by contemporaries.