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That's something I'd like to learn more about - the period from Pentecost until the destruction of the Temple and what life "looked like" for most of the Jewish followers of Christ. I'm sure it was hard to shed their understanding (and observance) of the law.It seems that many Jewish Christians in Jerusalem were zealous for the law and still following it.
Let's not get into a sabbatical war here....If there is one word that will draw sabbatarians[7 day sabbath keepers] to a thread it is the word "sabbath".
I really do not wish to see this thread moved over to here:
https://www.christianforums.com/forums/sabbath-and-the-law.1131/
Sabbath and The Law
Sabbath day worship and keeping the law
This thread is primarily on why Jesus used the word "sabbath" in Matt 24 and I think we have pretty much established that the Olivet Discourse is about wrath and tribulation upon the Jews, whether in 1st century Judea, or modern day.
Matthew 24:
19 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
Do you ever look at the greek before you post something like that?....
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
He is not vague. Not "a" sabbath, but "the" sabbath.
Do you ever look at the greek before you post something like that?
You just lost credibilty......
Not one greek text shows the article "the" in that verse [someone can tell me if I am wrong about this]
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/index.htm
en = in
Matthew 24:20
Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde en sabbatw
Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde en sabbatw
Byzantine Majority
proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde sabbatw
Alexandrian
proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde sabbatw
Hort and Westcott
proseucesqe de ina mh genhtai h fugh umwn ceimwnoV mhde sabbatw
When Jesus spoke to the disciples He did not speak in parables. He said what He meant to say.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
He is not vague. Not "a" sabbath, but "the" sabbath.
Do you ever look at the greek before you post something like that? You just lost credibilty......
Not one greek text shows the article "the" in that verse [someone can tell me if I am wrong about this]
The call me the "greek meister".Well, now you caught me---no I hadn't seen the Greek--just perused a few translations......
Silly me. But then---why would Jesus warn about not fleeing on a Jewish feast day? Most feast days were quite joyous occasions---people all over the place--seems like a good time to blend in with the crowds.
If the great tribulation of Daniel 12 and matthew 24 are the same. When do/did they occur? 1st century or still future from us?
It says this:
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
sanctified
SANC'TIFIED, pp.
1. Made holy; consecrated; set apart for sacred services.
2. Affectedly holy.
Do you think Adam and Eve were keeping the Sabbath day before the fall, because God "sanctified" that day?
Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Do you think those who do not keep the sundown Friday till sundown Saturday Sabbath should be stoned to death, to keep that day "sanctified"?
Is that why it is called "the ministry of death, engraved on stone" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?
Is that day more important than the day Jesus died at Calvary?
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I’m trying to wrap my head around how the great tribulation and resurrection occur within a 42 month period in Daniel 12, but the great tribulation and resurrection occur 2000+ years apart in Matthew 24, considering Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 are about the same event.Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
If the event above is the same event described by Christ in John 5:27-30, which is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead, then the timing of the event is found in Revelation 11:18.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
That would be future.
What do you think ?
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I’m trying to wrap my head around how the great tribulation and resurrection occur within a 42 month period in Daniel 12, but the great tribulation and resurrection occur 2000+ years apart in Matthew 24, considering Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 are about the same event.
Who else --seeing as the Sabbath was made for man. and they were the only humans around.
Why would I want anyone---other than child molesters--to be stoned to death??? What commandments are kept or broken is between God and the individual. It is He that we all answer to. It is a commandment, no less of one than thou shalt not murder. Break one, you break them all. Keeping them will not save you, unrepentantly breaking them, will keep you out of God's salvation.
I do not place any importance on days--I could care less what day of the week is kept. The one that does care and designated a certain day for a certain reason is God, and Him I will not argue with. He designated it, He alone can change it, and never did. Not one word from Him after the resurrection about it being changed to honor his resurrection, He had already set a day to honor Him as the creator.
And Jesus always kept the Sabbath and we will continue to keep it
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
That is not what I said.
"The times of the Gentiles" found in Luke 21:24 began when Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
That time period becomes full at the Second Coming of Christ.
The last 3 1/2 years of "the times of the Gentiles" is "the great tribulation" in my viewpoint.
That makes the term in Matthew's Gospel parallel to the term used in Luke's Gospel, in the same way that Matthew 24:15-16, is parallel to Luke 21:20-21, even though they do not use exactly the same language.
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I know that’s not what you said. Sorry if it can off that way, I was just thinking out loud when I said ‘I’m trying to wrap my head around’.
So you believe the tribulation of Matthew 24:20-21 was not about the 1st century, but about the last 42 months of the times of the gentiles to take place 2000+ years later?
20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
Matthew 24:20-21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 24:20-21&version=ESV
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
I am not sure that the word "tribulation" in the verse above is necessarily referring to the same "tribulation" in the verse below.
We are told throughout the New Testament that we are to expect "tribulation".
Therefore, they do not have to be referring to the same time period.
Luke's Gospel seems clearer on this issue.
Luke seems to be using the term "times of the Gentiles", in place of a period of "tribulation".
This seems to be the best way to make the two passages parallel, in my opinion, since Paul also referred to "the time of the Gentiles" in Romans 11:25. Because of Romans 11:25, I cannot make it only about 70AD.
Look below at what John said on the Island of Patmos.
Rev_1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Based on John's statement above I do not think making "the times of the Gentiles" to be equal with the "tribulation" period is unreasonable.
Hi claninja.Doesn't revelation tell us how long the gentiles will trample Jerusalem? 42 months?
Revelation 11:2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.
Doesn't revelation tell us how long the gentiles will trample Jerusalem? 42 months?
Revelation 11:2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.
Bad translation.The location of the temple at the beginning of Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.
Hi claninja.
If you look at the greek of Reve 11:2, the phrase John uses is "be casting out outside".
The court was inside the Temple and outside of the Sanctuary.
It contained the water laver, altar of sacrifice/burnt-offerings and the Priesthood that performed the Temple services and inside the Sanctuary [holy place and most holy place]
Revelation 11:1
And there was given unto me a reed, like unto a staff, saying-- "Be rousing! and Measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God, and the Altar[Golden Altar of Incense], and them who are doing homage therein;
2 and, the Court/Palace<833>, the one without the Sanctuary<3485, be casting out!<1544> out-side and not thou should be measuring it. [Galatians 4:30]
That it was given unto the nations
What I found interesting while studying on #1544, was that exact form of the greek word used in Revelation 11:2 is used in only 1 other verse in the NT:
Galatians 4:30
but what saith the Writing? `Be casting out!<1544> the maid-servant and her son,
for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman;' [Genesis 21:10/Revelation 11:2 "court of the Preists]
The location of the temple at the beginning of Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Is the "holy city" described as "spiritually like Sodom and Egypt", or is it a reference to New Jerusalem, found at the beginning of the book?
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Do you think the resurrection of the dead occurred in 70 AD?
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