• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Materialism and the inherent ignorance of atomistic knowing

public hermit

social troglodyte
Site Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
12,309
13,149
East Coast
✟1,031,681.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The relevance to emergence is that the patterns and their activity are not predictable from the initial configuration of the cells. You can understand the rules and the binary nature of the individual cells, but unless you apply the rules over several iterations, you don't know what patterns will result from a given starting configuration. IOW, the patterns are emergent.

That is fascinating.


The discovery that I thought was particularly relevant to the question of consciousness and the brain, was that the interactions of these patterns can be made to process information - if you set the initial state of the grid appropriately, and decide on your representations of inputs and outputs, you can make the interacting patterns in GoL do anything a computer can do - as in a programmable computer:

This is truly fascinating. I had not heard of GoL until today, so it will take my pea brain a bit to grasp this. Thank you for taking the time to share it.
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,143
✟349,182.00
Faith
Atheist
This is truly fascinating. I had not heard of GoL until today, so it will take my pea brain a bit to grasp this. Thank you for taking the time to share it.
Another useful feature of the emergent patterns in GoL is that they can help shed light on the debate about whether there is top-down causal influence, or whether it's causally bottom-up.

The patterns in GoL are clearly the result of bottom-up processes, but their behaviour and interactions can only usefully be described at the level of the patterns, as interacting processes or entities in their own right. So if you were asked whether, given a particular grid configuration, a particular cell would switch on or off when the game is in progress, you could only usefully predict the answer by looking at the patterns that would form and whether any pattern was likely to move into that area and interact with the patterns there; i.e. a top-down approach. Pattern X interacts with pattern Y causing a 'glider' to move across the grid and change the state of the target cell. There's no convenient or useful way to express that in terms of individual cells switching on and off.

So, when dealing with emergent processes or systems, a causally top-down view is often the only useful and coherent way to describe them. Both bottom-up and top-down descriptions are valid in their own domains, but each domain has its own descriptive language and concepts. This is true in everyday life - we don't talk about the kinetic energy of individual gas molecules, we talk about the temperature and pressure of the gas, and we can use the Gas Laws to calculate how they will change in different circumstances without considering the molecules at all.

This 'coarse-graining' or 'chunking' of the world throws away vast amounts of hard-to-process information in exchange for a compressed summary, an approximation that is easy to understand and manipulate. I think this applies as much to the way we conceptualise and describe human consciousness, thought, and behaviour as we do the world around us.
 
Upvote 0

zippy2006

Dragonsworn
Nov 9, 2013
7,640
3,846
✟290,838.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
...which is really only to say that GoL demonstrates that it is possible for bottom-up processes to look like top-down processes. In this thread, though, the crowning achievement of GoL is the emulation of a turing machine, and the philosophical debates surrounding turing machines and consciousness already exist at a level that supersedes GoL. GoL thus functions as a useful illustration of a principle, but it doesn't provide any real adjudicatory power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0