Masturbation

[david_x]

There you go being cryptic again.


Um... what do you mean?

Romans 14:3-5 (New International Version)

3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

 

[cowboysfan1970]

Since I have never addressed anything so broad, yet. I will.

1. Sex is a good and perfect gift, so I hold that it is from God. Proverbs 5:19 James 1:17
2. Sex is very easily manipulated, thus many rules have been made pertaining to it. Examples
3. There should be none of these sexual immoralities in the Church. Ephesians 5:3
4. A quick list of sexual sins:

Lust: as per this reply.
Beastiality: Relations with animals. Leviticus 18

Sex with relatives: Leviticus 18

et all
​

Well, it's a list, but it's not quite as specific as I was expecting. There are some vague things in there that can be interpreted in many different ways. Lust is one of them. As I posted many pages ago it seems like many young people have this very broad definition of lust, some so broad that it pretty much covers anything sexual in the first place. For example, what would you consider lust to be in marriage? My personal background is very sex restrictive as I posted before and from what you've posted it seems like you have more or less the same ideas. There are people that consider sex to be of "the flesh" and being something that's sort of a neccessary evil. Your posts might make somebody think that you are in their camp. You did write that you think that sex is good but those types of people think that too, when it's used in its right context, and that is making babies and that only. I'm using that as an example. When you really begin to examine that kind of thinking it presents problems. It doesn't really seem to go with other verses in the Bible and it goes way into legalism. It presumes that our natural desires and the satisfying them in marriage is somehow wrong or indecent. That was an attitude being promoted by some in the church in Corinth and Paul told them that their attitude was wrong in his letter. If they believed him or not is really unknown because people that are very strongly convicted in this type of way usually won't change their minds no matter what anyone else tells them. It's something that they have to discover on their own. Very restrictive attitudes towards sex, especially inside of marriage, won't make anyone more spiritual. A marriage where sex is either highly restricted or even ignored isn't more spiritual or holy than any other marriage. It took me a long time to understand that.

 

[david_x]

Well, it's a list, but it's not quite as specific as I was expecting. There are some vague things in there that can be interpreted in many different ways. Lust is one of them. As I posted many pages ago it seems like many young people have this very broad definition of lust, some so broad that it pretty much covers anything sexual in the first place. For example, what would you consider lust to be in marriage? My personal background is very sex restrictive as I posted before and from what you've posted it seems like you have more or less the same ideas. There are people that consider sex to be of "the flesh" and being something that's sort of a neccessary evil. Your posts might make somebody think that you are in their camp. You did write that you think that sex is good but those types of people think that too, when it's used in its right context, and that is making babies and that only. I'm using that as an example. When you really begin to examine that kind of thinking it presents problems. It doesn't really seem to go with other verses in the Bible and it goes way into legalism. It presumes that our natural desires and the satisfying them in marriage is somehow wrong or indecent. That was an attitude being promoted by some in the church in Corinth and Paul told them that their attitude was wrong in his letter. If they believed him or not is really unknown because people that are very strongly convicted in this type of way usually won't change their minds no matter what anyone else tells them. It's something that they have to discover on their own. Very restrictive attitudes towards sex, especially inside of marriage, won't make anyone more spiritual. A marriage where sex is either highly restricted or even ignored isn't more spiritual or holy than any other marriage. It took me a long time to understand that.

It's amazing how much you can right about, that i never so much as implied. It's borderline libel, and annoying as anything. If you're not addressing my post than don't quote it.

 

[cowboysfan1970]

It's amazing how much you can right about, that i never so much as implied. It's borderline libel, and annoying as anything. If you're not addressing my post than don't quote it.

There's not really anything else that I think myself or anyone else can post with you. I just don't think you get it.

 

[Zebra1552]

It's amazing how much you can right about, that i never so much as implied. It's borderline libel, and annoying as anything. If you're not addressing my post than don't quote it.

If you want out of the conversation, then say 'I'd like to be done with this' and leave.

 

[Zebra1552]

Romans 14:3-5 (New International Version)

3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Cut the junk and answer my question.

 

[david_x]

If you want out of the conversation, then say 'I'd like to be done with this' and leave.

I don't want "out of the conversation" I just want people to stop making wild accusations about what I think instead of replying to what I post. (Not you so much as the others.)

 

[david_x]

Cut the junk and answer my question.

That is the answer. You're God's servant, not mine. It is up to God to let you do something if you are able, while it is up to me to follow what God has laid before me to do. Since our ideologies don't contradict there is no reason for me to judge you for doing that. It is wrong for me to do it though, it has come between me and God before and that needs to be stopped.

 

[david_x]

Well, it's a list, but it's not quite as specific as I was expecting. There are some vague things in there that can be interpreted in many different ways. Lust is one of them. As I posted many pages ago it seems like many young people have this very broad definition of lust, some so broad that it pretty much covers anything sexual in the first place. For example, what would you consider lust to be in marriage? My personal background is very sex restrictive as I posted before and from what you've posted it seems like you have more or less the same ideas. There are people that consider sex to be of "the flesh" and being something that's sort of a neccessary evil. Your posts might make somebody think that you are in their camp. You did write that you think that sex is good but those types of people think that too, when it's used in its right context, and that is making babies and that only. I'm using that as an example. When you really begin to examine that kind of thinking it presents problems. It doesn't really seem to go with other verses in the Bible and it goes way into legalism. It presumes that our natural desires and the satisfying them in marriage is somehow wrong or indecent. That was an attitude being promoted by some in the church in Corinth and Paul told them that their attitude was wrong in his letter. If they believed him or not is really unknown because people that are very strongly convicted in this type of way usually won't change their minds no matter what anyone else tells them. It's something that they have to discover on their own. Very restrictive attitudes towards sex, especially inside of marriage, won't make anyone more spiritual. A marriage where sex is either highly restricted or even ignored isn't more spiritual or holy than any other marriage. It took me a long time to understand that.

Here is what I mean: You attribute me to this group that thinks that sex in marriage is wrong unless making babies. Here is the post:

1. Sex is a good and perfect gift, so I hold that it is from God. Proverbs 5:19 James 1:17
2. Sex is very easily manipulated, thus many rules have been made pertaining to it. Examples
3. There should be none of these sexual immoralities in the Church. Ephesians 5:3
4. A quick list of sexual sins:

Lust: as per this reply.
Beastiality: Relations with animals. Leviticus 18

Sex with relatives: Leviticus 18

et all​

Honestly looking at this again, I actually see were the problem is. I assumed that you looked at the verses I posted when I said that sex was a gift from God. Sorry I lashed back like that. Good thing we're brothers and forgiveness is easier, eh?


*Check out that Proverbs verse, I think that should clear up what I think about sex in marriage. If I remember correctly little Jewish boys aren't allowed to read it until they are 13, it's a tad graphic.

 

[Zebra1552]

I don't want "out of the conversation" I just want people to stop making wild accusations about what I think instead of replying to what I post. (Not you so much as the others.)

No one is making wild accusations.

That is the answer. You're God's servant, not mine. It is up to God to let you do something if you are able, while it is up to me to follow what God has laid before me to do. Since our ideologies don't contradict there is no reason for me to judge you for doing that. It is wrong for me to do it though, it has come between me and God before and that needs to be stopped.

Then say that rather than typing in code.

 

[david_x]

No one is making wild accusations.

It's happened, many of strange things I have been accused of so far...

Then say that rather than typing in code.

It's allusion. Idk what they teach in schools these days, sometimes I feel like a certain river god took complete control.

 

[Zebra1552]

It's happened, many of strange things I have been accused of so far...

Yeah that's nice, maybe you can get back on topic.

It's allusion. Idk what they teach in schools these days, sometimes I feel like a certain river god took complete control.

I don't quite care how smart you think you are. I asked you a direct question, and I appreciate direct answers to those questions. It's quite rude to keep people guessing when you can just answer the question.

 

[cowboysfan1970]

Here is what I mean: You attribute me to this group that thinks that sex in marriage is wrong unless making babies. Here is the post:

1. Sex is a good and perfect gift, so I hold that it is from God. Proverbs 5:19 James 1:17
2. Sex is very easily manipulated, thus many rules have been made pertaining to it. Examples
3. There should be none of these sexual immoralities in the Church. Ephesians 5:3
4. A quick list of sexual sins:

Lust: as per this reply.
Beastiality: Relations with animals. Leviticus 18

Sex with relatives: Leviticus 18

et all
​

Honestly looking at this again, I actually see were the problem is. I assumed that you looked at the verses I posted when I said that sex was a gift from God. Sorry I lashed back like that. Good thing we're brothers and forgiveness is easier, eh?


*Check out that Proverbs verse, I think that should clear up what I think about sex in marriage. If I remember correctly little Jewish boys aren't allowed to read it until they are 13, it's a tad graphic.

The reason why I bring this up is for two reasons really. The first one is that this is my past so I know some things about it from experience. The second is that they used some of the same reasoning that you used against masturbation. What I was unsure of is if you realized that and it did sort of make me wonder if you were in their school of though. People that believe that (making babies only) are more often that not stridently opposed to masturbation or basically any type of physical pleasure. They see things like that as being "of the flesh" and we are to deny ourselves, deny what our flesh wants, and to practice a very strict form of self control. They also lead a very joyless life.

I started to question those ideas years ago and decided that I would look into things and see if they really were true or not. This anti-pleasure, uber purity teaching that more or less treats the body and our desires as evil and must be destroyed, is from Plato and not Christianity. His beliefs were picked up by early Christians and became canon. They've held on and people still believe in them today. The problem is that they aren't backed up by the Bible. What my point really boils down to is that I came to the idea that our bodies, our desires (especially sexual ones) aren't evil or corrupt. We were made with them, we didn't develop them after The Fall. I had a very big misunderstanding of lust. I thought that lust was sexual desire in general. What I found out is that lust is where you start putting the wheels in motion to hook up with that person that you are attracted to or to steal away that wife or husband from their spouse. When a person does that they've crossed the line into lust and they are in sin. Simply being attracted to someone physically or being aroused by someone isn't lust. I used to think it was and I was wrong. I was trying to point out to you that some of your posts read in kind of an anti-sexual way and it could very easily lead someone to believe that you were steeped in Platonism. I'm not mad at you or anything like that but I do think that maybe you've missed the point of what some people are trying to get across.

 

[Ave Maria]

There is nothing wrong with masturbation. Though personally, I am against pornography. I don't know for sure if viewing pornography is considered sinful or not but I do think it should be discouraged as it can be addictive.

 

[david_x]

The reason why I bring this up is for two reasons really. The first one is that this is my past so I know some things about it from experience. The second is that they used some of the same reasoning that you used against masturbation. What I was unsure of is if you realized that and it did sort of make me wonder if you were in their school of though. People that believe that (making babies only) are more often that not stridently opposed to masturbation or basically any type of physical pleasure. They see things like that as being "of the flesh" and we are to deny ourselves, deny what our flesh wants, and to practice a very strict form of self control. They also lead a very joyless life.

I started to question those ideas years ago and decided that I would look into things and see if they really were true or not. This anti-pleasure, uber purity teaching that more or less treats the body and our desires as evil and must be destroyed, is from Plato and not Christianity. His beliefs were picked up by early Christians and became canon. They've held on and people still believe in them today. The problem is that they aren't backed up by the Bible. What my point really boils down to is that I came to the idea that our bodies, our desires (especially sexual ones) aren't evil or corrupt. We were made with them, we didn't develop them after The Fall. I had a very big misunderstanding of lust. I thought that lust was sexual desire in general. What I found out is that lust is where you start putting the wheels in motion to hook up with that person that you are attracted to or to steal away that wife or husband from their spouse. When a person does that they've crossed the line into lust and they are in sin. Simply being attracted to someone physically or being aroused by someone isn't lust. I used to think it was and I was wrong. I was trying to point out to you that some of your posts read in kind of an anti-sexual way and it could very easily lead someone to believe that you were steeped in Platonism. I'm not mad at you or anything like that but I do think that maybe you've missed the point of what some people are trying to get across.

...did you read the verse or not? It clearly says that breasts should satisfy you always, that's hardly reproduction. I think I have made it quite clear by now that I think sex would be about the greatest thing ever...

 

[david_x]

There is nothing wrong with masturbation. Though personally, I am against pornography. I don't know for sure if viewing pornography is considered sinful or not but I do think it should be discouraged as it can be addictive.

I don't know about you, but I don't want people looking at my naked body for something like that. If I don't want it chances are my neighbor wouldn't want it either.

 

[Zebra1552]

I don't know about you, but I don't want people looking at my naked body for something like that. If I don't want it chances are my neighbor wouldn't want it either.

Um... it's not your naked body if it's not your real body...

 

[david_x]

Um... it's not your naked body if it's not your real body...

It's still images of it?

 

[Zebra1552]

It's still images of it?

Example: If I took a picture of you with clothes on, then photoshopped the living daylights out of it to make you into a very, very fat person and changed your face, would it really be a picture of you?

 

[david_x]

Example: If I took a picture of you with clothes on, then photoshopped the living daylights out of it to make you into a very, very fat person and changed your face, would it really be a picture of you?

Yes...not sure what you're trying to say here.