Masturbation

[david_x]

Please take a look at who was addressing you.

It was chingchang, so?

 

[Zebra1552]

So you didn't bother to read his signature or anything he posted, you just attacked. I'd like to see you address his points.

 

[david_x]

That does not apply. You stated that eating is superficial. By your argument, just like masturbation, we should abstain because it is superficial. You're grasping at straws here.

Yes, you should abstain. But there are obvious exclusions to this, eating enough to live and having sex in marriage.

I just posted you a link that indicates that it IS a need, and now you're just dismissing it? Why are you arguing this if you've already made up your mind?

Proves it by definition, that doesn't mean you can't live while ignoring it.

How does it not support my position? Did you forget the original point you made, that homosexuality is okay then also because it's not in the Bible? You STILL have not properly defined lust. Another red herring.

I said that loving homosexual relationship was not in the Bible, your verse doesn't say anything about that.

Lust: uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

 

[UnionJack]

i think its getting too hostile in here

 

[Kencj]

That would be the temptation giving birth to sin that I just quoted.

But the desire wasn't the sin, the deliberate act was, and it was only so "in his heart". The message is that God sees what's in your heart as well as what you do externally, not that the desire for sex is a sin.

 

[david_x]

So you didn't bother to read his signature or anything he posted, you just attacked. I'd like to see you address his points.

I'd like to see him address me.

 

[Kencj]

Lust: uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

Oh please, you're not going to the dictionary definition again here are you?

We've already gone over this to death that "lust" in the Bible is nothing like the dictionary term. In the Bible even angels do it when they "strongly desire to look into such things" -it's the same greek word that's translated "lust" in some older versions. And of course angels have no "sexual desire".

It's important to remember that the Bible was written in ancient greek not english, and looking into an english dictionary to understand biblical terms can be very misleading, as in this case.

 

[Zebra1552]

i think its getting too hostile in here

This is theology. It's almost ALWAYS hostile in some form or another.

 

[Zebra1552]

I'd like to see him address me.

He did. Two entire paragraphs, if I remember correctly.

 

[david_x]

But the desire wasn't the sin, the deliberate act was, and it was only so "in his heart". The message is that God sees what's in your heart as well as what you do externally, not that the desire for sex is a sin.

I'm not saying that desire is a sin, why do you keep coming back to that!

Desire that is dwelt upon becomes sin.

 

[david_x]

He did. Two entire paragraphs, if I remember correctly.

He talked above me, not to me.

 

[Zebra1552]

Yes, you should abstain. But there are obvious exclusions to this, eating enough to live and having sex in marriage.

So I should eat just enough to live? How do I determine what that is? Does it need to be to the exact calorie?

Where is this in the Bible?

Proves it by definition, that doesn't mean you can't live while ignoring it.

It means that your claim was wrong: it is needed.

I said that loving homosexual relationship was not in the Bible, your verse doesn't say anything about that.

I explained this already. Homosexual sex is a vital part of homosexual relationships: it's the sexual attraction that make them homosexual in the first place.

Lust: uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

That is not a proper definition, that is your standard Oxford definition. Did Oxford write the Bible?

 

[Zebra1552]

He talked above me, not to me.

I'd like to see you address his points.

 

[david_x]

Oh please, you're not going to the dictionary definition again here are you?

We've already gone over this to death that "lust" in the Bible is nothing like the dictionary term. In the Bible even angels do it when they "strongly desire to look into such things" -it's the same greek word that's translated "lust" in some older versions. And of course angels have no "sexual desire".

It's important to remember that the Bible was written in ancient greek not english, and looking into an english dictionary to understand biblical terms can be very misleading, as in this case.

Yeah, it's called context. You should be able to figure out which definition they are talking about.

 

[Zebra1552]

Yeah, it's called context. You should be able to figure out which definition they are talking about.

If it's that easy, why not just post it? It's YOUR definition, not ours. We've made it quite clear what the Greek says about it... and it contradicts with your definition.

 

[david_x]

So I should eat just enough to live? How do I determine what that is? Does it need to be to the exact calorie?

Where is this in the Bible?


It means that your claim was wrong: it is needed.



I explained this already. Homosexual sex is a vital part of homosexual relationships: it's the sexual attraction that make them homosexual in the first place.


That is not a proper definition, that is your standard Oxford definition. Did Oxford write the Bible?

I didn't realize that I couldn't use the dictionary, but you could. Excuse me.

About the eating:
Don't be so legalistic, as long as your not getting over weight it's hardly an issue. (Over weight can be attributed to disease, so there are exceptions here too.)

As too homosexual sex:
Sex is indeed a part of a loving homosexual relationship, but it is never addressed in that context. It's only addressed in either the lustful or prostitute contexts.

 

[Zebra1552]

I didn't realize that I couldn't use the dictionary, but you could. Excuse me.

Red herring. I was not defining a biblical term.

About the eating:
Don't be so legalistic, as long as your not getting over weight it's hardly an issue. (Over weight can be attributed to disease, so there are exceptions here too.)

Then why did you bring it up? I'm not being legalistic. I'm asking logical questions given what YOU stated.

As too homosexual sex:
Sex is indeed a part of a loving homosexual relationship, but it is never addressed in that context. It's only addressed in either the lustful or prostitute contexts.

Another red herring. It is the act that is condemned, not the context of it.

 

[Kencj]

I'm not saying that desire is a sin, why do you keep coming back to that!

Desire that is dwelt upon becomes sin.

I keep coming back to it because it's what you said earlier.

First you said;
"It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it".

Then you said;
"Nor did I say a "desire" for sex is sinful. When you linger on it and entertain it, you sin."

Now you're saying:
"Desire that is dwelt upon becomes sin."

I can agree with you that improper desires become sin, that's certainly what Paul teaches, but only depending on how we act on them and not independent of that.

You know I didn't realize you're only 20 -I actually used to think like you do at your age, simply because I was so unfamiliar with the concept of livng in the grace of God and they weren't teaching it at all at my church. I don't know if that's your situation or not but it is with plenty of people, unfortunately. At 20 the desire for sex can be genuinely scarey and it seems like your'e being pulled between complete loss of control on one end and clamming up entirely on the other. There is a middle ground that comes from faith in God's grace, but it takes time to learn it. It took me forever.

 

[david_x]

If it's that easy, why not just post it? It's YOUR definition, not ours. We've made it quite clear what the Greek says about it... and it contradicts with your definition.

The greek is a negative affiliation as well. Epithumeo a word which has two meanings, one positive "to desire" the other negative "evil desires". Matt. 5:28 is a negative sense of the word.

 

[Kencj]

Yeah, it's called context. You should be able to figure out which definition they are talking about.

The definition the Bible is using, which comes from the greek, is not the one you're using, which comes from the dictionary.