Masturbation

[david_x]

Hello, I said "thinking about sex is no more sinful or "lust" than thinking about food is. We've covered that ground too."

Paul's phrase "sinful nature" is his, and it's only one word in greek, SARX, if I remember right, sometimes translated "the flesh" -or better (if you ask me) "human nature". The word "sinful" itself doesn't appear in the greek.

But it is sinful non the less.

 

[Kencj]

Oh that one, yes it would be concupiscence.

Which only takes us back to my original question, "But where on earth does it say not to think about sex??"

 

[david_x]

Which only takes us back to my original question, "But where on earth does it say not to think about sex??"

Matt. 5...

 

[Kencj]

Good, now pick up your cross and follow Him.

Condemning yourself and others for things that aren't sins is not "taking up the cross".

 

[david_x]

Condemning yourself and others for things that aren't sins is not "taking up the cross".

Sacrificing your sinful nature is.

 

[Kencj]

Matt. 5...

Matt 5 has already been covered thoroughly umpteen posts ago.
Jesus nowhere says to not think about sex.

 

[Kencj]

Sacrificing your sinful nature is.

And simply thinking about sex is not the "sinful nature" any more than thinking about food is.

 

[david_x]

Matt 5 has already been covered thoroughly umpteen posts ago.
Jesus nowhere says to not think about sex.

And if this were so simple as "thinking" about sex there would be no problem. It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it. This falls under the Matt. 5 verse.

 

[Zebra1552]

Isn't all sin superficial?

Yeah, REALLY superficial when it has ETERNAL consequences. Come on, did you bother to read what I posted?

You steal for wealth, you have sex outside of marriage for pleasure. Will wealth or pleasure save you?

Will eating save me? Will drinking? Yet I must do them to live. Will entertainment save me? No, yet it keeps me sane.

That is not the point, my point is that it's not in the listed among the sins in the Bible.

It's not the point that homosexual sex is a vital part of a homosexual relationship and therefore factors into your attempt to dismiss what I said? Says who?

 

[chingchang]

And if this were so simple as "thinking" about sex there would be no problem. It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it. This falls under the Matt. 5 verse.

It is fruitless to debate this with David. He is bent on being "right" rather than growing. Although none of us are probably qualified (whatever that means) to teach David...he might accept the teachings of PhD-ed Biblical Scholars on this subject. I highly recommend going to Amazon.com and getting a book on this (and related) subjects. Look under "Christian Sexual Ethics". There are several good ones. I can recommend a few if you want.

Thinking about sex is no more "sin" than thinking about eating or thinking about taking a vacation. By telling people this, David, you are putting those weaker in faith in a yoke of bondage! You are teaching them falsely...not in truth. And the truth is we have liberty in Christ!

CC

 

[cowboysfan1970]

And if this were so simple as "thinking" about sex there would be no problem. It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it. This falls under the Matt. 5 verse.

Man david you seem to really hate sex with a passion. Pretty much everything that you've posted about it has been negative. You sound like a voice from my past and I've gone into that. Do you believe that masturbation will cause a person to lose their salvation and send them to hell? If so then I think there's a ton of room in Heaven and hell is stuffed wall to wall with souls. A lot of young Christians really don't have a sound understanding of things like lust I've noticed. They have this very broad definition of lust as being more or less anything sexual, period. Those old school, 19th Century, "just grit your teeth and think of England" type of attitudes about sex seem to be making a comeback. I just hope for your sake and your future wife that you let her know of your attitudes towards sexuality before you get married.

 

[Ave Maria]

Masturbation is a grave sin. The reason? Masturbation requires lust. You cannot touch without lusting.

Also, masturbation is using the reproductive system for something other than its natural use. The natural use of the reproductive system is for reproduction and intimacy with one's husband or wife.

 

[Zebra1552]

Masturbation is a grave sin. The reason? Masturbation requires lust. You cannot touch without lusting.

What is lust?

Is it desire? If so, then why isn't my desire for food wrong?

Is it more specifically sexual desire? If so, then why doesn't a husband sin for wanting to share a special moment with his wife?

Also, masturbation is using the reproductive system for something other than its natural use. The natural use of the reproductive system is for reproduction and intimacy with one's husband or wife.

Where does it say this in the Bible?

 

[chingchang]

Masturbation is a grave sin. The reason? Masturbation requires lust. You cannot touch without lusting.

You are wrong...but this just proves that this issue is a 'disputable matter' and falls under Romans 14 instruction. I can not sit idle and let you talk evil of something I know to be good.

Also, masturbation is using the reproductive system for something other than its natural use. The natural use of the reproductive system is for reproduction and intimacy with one's husband or wife.

Don't have sex for anything but procreation...or you sin! Did someone freeze you in 600AD Rome and unfreeze you recently? Seriously...

CC

 

[Kencj]

By telling people this, David, you are putting those weaker in faith in a yoke of bondage! You are teaching them falsely...not in truth. And the truth is we have liberty in Christ!

Amen, brother. This is why I think it's so important to not simply let such things go as simply a matter of opinion -it's a destructive viewpoint that leads people into condemnation and away from God's grace. I used to think that way somewhat myself when I was first a Christian but I wish someone had at least tried to show me the error of it.

 

[Kencj]

Masturbation is a grave sin. The reason? Masturbation requires lust. You cannot touch without lusting.

I suggest you go back and read through the earlier threads where we discuss what "lust" is in depth. Even angels do it.

And by the way, of course you can touch without desire, just like you can eat without being hungry.

 

[Kencj]

I'm going to separate this post into points in response to you:

1) "...after your married you can abandon self control?"
Certainly a person should exert some self-control and be discreet about how they go about having sex with their husband/wife. But in self-control outside marriage, one is to be discreet and not fornicate.

2) "It only applies to unmarried people?"
Self-control should be applied in general for the christian. Here is a good example. When a person has not reached the age to drink, he is to be self-controlled and not drink liquor (that is the public's idea I think). But after he has reached the age to drink (19 in Canada, 21 in states), that person may drink alchohal, but it should be self-controlled.

There is a difference in the context of not being able to drink and being able to drink and how self-control is applied to each of them.


3) "Masturbation is not something that only happens with unmarried people by any means."

Within a marriage it would be foreplay, wouldn't it?


4) "Also, you realize that most Christians refuse to marry without love being involved, mostly because it says things like "husbands, love your wives".

Very true, but who are you to judge people who marry without at first being in love with their partner? But one can still love them sensually and affectionately if one is brought up that way (arranged marriage for example) in the sense that their marriages are arranged and they are strangers at first. I think asian cultures have a tendency to have arranged marriages, and during Roman times too.

6) "That's why quoting "it's better to marry than to burn" as an assumed preventative for masturbation seems so facile."

In honesty, I am more concerned with the our bodies being God's temple than that quote. It is better to marry than to burn, but one is called to be self-controlled, and in the context of our bodies being God's temple, can you blame me for being concerned about that context? Perhaps self-titilation/sexual gratification may be dishonorable?

Um, here's a good example: I've heard that sometimes men has been able to use their own mouth for certain things that would normally be impossible. I won't go into it because that would grant me a warning from the mods, but yeah, I think you know what I'm talking about. Don't you think such a thing would be dishonorable to God and defiling yourself? The context of that is different from a context where a wife would do that to a man.

"Self-control" is not making things into sins that aren't sins, whether one is referring to masturbation in particular or the simple desire for sex in general. Making the desire for sex into a sin is the opposite of self-control, it's self-destruction, and it's a more severe "legalism" than even the Pharisees would have stooped to.

If a person is out of control in anything, eating, drinking, or sex (with others or not) they have a problem and need to deal with it. Christians should deal with it first by accepting God's grace that they are fully accepted by God because of Christ's death on the cross. Making such things into "sins" only worsens the problem.

Masturbation is solitary sex that doesn't involve another person, so of course it can't be "foreplay". I wouldn't be at all surprised, if a poll were done, that married people do it just as much as unmarried. If you want me to explain why that happens, I will.

 

[Kencj]

And if this were so simple as "thinking" about sex there would be no problem. It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it. This falls under the Matt. 5 verse.

So are we to assume that you never think about sex?
Of course you do.
So who are you condemning but yourself?

 

[david_x]

Yeah, REALLY superficial when it has ETERNAL consequences. Come on, did you bother to read what I posted?

That is beside the point, the point is that they can not satisfy you for more than a moment.

Will eating save me? Will drinking? Yet I must do them to live. Will entertainment save me? No, yet it keeps me sane.

Must is a strong word. You must eat and you must drink, and like i said before, there is no NEED to do that. If you want 'entertainment' watch a movie or read the Bible.

It's not the point that homosexual sex is a vital part of a homosexual relationship and therefore factors into your attempt to dismiss what I said? Says who?

You're missing the point here, the NT only talks of prostitution. When the act of masturbation is in the OT it talks about leaving the camp of the Lord, now that you are the temple of the lord how do you leave it so as not to defile it?

 

[david_x]

It is fruitless to debate this with David. He is bent on being "right" rather than growing. Although none of us are probably qualified (whatever that means) to teach David...he might accept the teachings of PhD-ed Biblical Scholars on this subject. I highly recommend going to Amazon.com and getting a book on this (and related) subjects. Look under "Christian Sexual Ethics". There are several good ones. I can recommend a few if you want.

Thinking about sex is no more "sin" than thinking about eating or thinking about taking a vacation. By telling people this, David, you are putting those weaker in faith in a yoke of bondage! You are teaching them falsely...not in truth. And the truth is we have liberty in Christ!

CC

Hiding behind a tense are we? If you want to say something man up and say it.