Masturbation

[david_x]

So are we to assume that you never think about sex?
Of course you do.
So who are you condemning but yourself?

I'm saved by grace, address the post and quit going around it like this. I'm human, obviously what I do is not moral.

"And if this were so simple as "thinking" about sex there would be no problem. It is a sin of our nature to think about it, it is a sin of choice to keep thinking about it. This falls under the Matt. 5 verse."

 

[david_x]

Man david you seem to really hate sex with a passion. Pretty much everything that you've posted about it has been negative. You sound like a voice from my past and I've gone into that. Do you believe that masturbation will cause a person to lose their salvation and send them to hell? If so then I think there's a ton of room in Heaven and hell is stuffed wall to wall with souls. A lot of young Christians really don't have a sound understanding of things like lust I've noticed. They have this very broad definition of lust as being more or less anything sexual, period. Those old school, 19th Century, "just grit your teeth and think of England" type of attitudes about sex seem to be making a comeback. I just hope for your sake and your future wife that you let her know of your attitudes towards sexuality before you get married.

You really need to catch up before posting, we are not talking about masturbation.

 

[Zebra1552]

That is beside the point, the point is that they can not satisfy you for more than a moment.

They certainly can. Otherwise you'd have to do it literally all the time.

Must is a strong word. You must eat and you must drink, and like i said before, there is no NEED to do that. If you want 'entertainment' watch a movie or read the Bible.

You have not shown that there is no need, and I have told you that there is a thing called a sex drive.

You're missing the point here, the NT only talks of prostitution. When the act of masturbation is in the OT it talks about leaving the camp of the Lord, now that you are the temple of the lord how do you leave it so as not to defile it?

Those laws are long gone, buddy. No need to follow the cuz Jesus fulfilled them.

 

[Big_Al]

A married person who fully intends to remain faithful to their spouse. The spouse, for various reasons refuses to participate in sex, or in any close contact outside of the usual wife-husband public sort of thing (smooch on the cheek). All sorts of methods have been tried to get this issue out in the open for discussion but the spouse refuses to even allow its discussion, instead resorting to temper explosions or long periods of silence.

Being in a committed and married situation has been good the spouse, the person has everything she could want. On the other hand this person has no sympathy in this matter, and at times it seems as if there is much more than meets the eye here.

What other alternatives are there besides living a life of denial.

 

[david_x]

They certainly can. Otherwise you'd have to do it literally all the time.

A few hours is little more than a moment compared to the eternal gift of Christ, the one that satisfies forever.

You have not shown that there is no need, and I have told you that there is a thing called a sex drive.

1. Excess 'fluids' can be removed during urination and/or wet dreams.
2. Saying that it is okay because there is a sex drive is fallacy. Appeal to Nature.

Those laws are long gone, buddy. No need to follow the cuz Jesus fulfilled them.

And here I thought they still applied, and more! To think that we've locked away so many people for silly things like murder and thievery, that don't have eternal consequences...

 

[Zebra1552]

A few hours is little more than a moment compared to the eternal gift of Christ, the one that satisfies forever.

Your point?

1. Excess 'fluids' can be removed during urination and/or wet dreams.

...which are often more graphic and disturbing than masturbating because you do it while not in control of yourself.

2. Saying that it is okay because there is a sex drive is fallacy. Appeal to Nature.

I've already debunked this claim. You say it is not needed, I say otherwise. When are you going to prove that the sex drive does not demonstrate a need for it?

And here I thought they still applied, and more! To think that we've locked away so many people for silly things like murder and thievery, that don't have eternal consequences...

Comparing ceremonial laws to moral laws: apples and oranges.

 

[david_x]

Your point?

That it's superficial..

...which are often more graphic and disturbing than masturbating because you do it while not in control of yourself.

I never said the were anything else, I said it's not NEEDED.

I've already debunked this claim. You say it is not needed, I say otherwise. When are you going to prove that the sex drive does not demonstrate a need for it?

People don't die because they haven't masturbated recently, how is it a need?

Comparing ceremonial laws to moral laws: apples and oranges.

Fair enough...

But how is the NT laws about fornication ceremonial?

 

[Zebra1552]

That it's superficial..

And how does comparing timelines show that it's superficial?

I never said the were anything else, I said it's not NEEDED.

I don't care. You're telling me I should give up something I CAN control for something that I CANNOT control.

People don't die because they haven't masturbated recently, how is it a need?

Because there's this thing called the sex drive. Do I need to repeat my request for evidence yet again?

Fair enough...

But how is the NT laws about fornication ceremonial?

Red herring.

 

[david_x]

And how does comparing timelines show that it's superficial?

If it's superficial it doesn't have positive eternal meaning, therefor food and indeed even more so sex are very superficial.

I don't care. You're telling me I should give up something I CAN control for something that I CANNOT control.

You are avoiding the point.

Because there's this thing called the sex drive. Do I need to repeat my request for evidence yet again?

It's a DRIVE not a need, that really proves my point for me.

Red herring.

That was the initial question that you skipped over actually.

How do the NT laws against prostitution relate to loving homosexual relationships. My point being that there are things we follow outside of biblical law, not that homosexuality is a-okay.

 

[Kencj]

I'm saved by grace, address the post and quit going around it like this. I'm human, obviously what I do is not moral."

I did address the post, and pointed out it's covered in detail over several pages earlier in this discussion.

Matt 5 does not even come close to saying that the mere desire for sex is a sin, as you well know.
And as you also know, this thread is about masturbation, the discussion of whether the mere desire for sex is sinful in itself is something you brought up.

 

[Zebra1552]

If it's superficial it doesn't have positive eternal meaning, therefor food and indeed even more so sex are very superficial.

Then by your argument, we should not eat.

You are avoiding the point.

No, YOU are avoiding the point I'm making about masturbation being controllable! Are we or are we not told that one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control? How is having wet dreams being in control of your thoughts?

It's a DRIVE not a need, that really proves my point for me.

Ahem...
sex drive - definition of sex drive by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Sex drive Definition | Definition of Sex drive at Dictionary.com

Your dictionary disagrees with you. It is indeed a need.

That was the initial question that you skipped over actually.

Prostitution has nothing to do with masturbation, nor does homosexuality. And it is indeed a red herring, because masturbation is never mentioned in the Bible, and your argument assumes that it is.

How do the NT laws against prostitution relate to loving homosexual relationships. My point being that there are things we follow outside of biblical law, not that homosexuality is a-okay.

What, have you never read Romans 1?

 

[Kencj]

Hiding behind a tense are we? If you want to say something man up and say it.

OK, this makes no sense at all either.

 

[david_x]

I did address the post, and pointed out it's covered in detail over several pages earlier in this discussion.

Matt 5 does not even come close to saying that the mere desire for sex is a sin, as you well know.
And as you also know, this thread is about masturbation, the discussion of whether the mere desire for sex is sinful in itself is something you brought up.

Nor did I say a "desire" for sex is sinful. When you linger on it and entertain it, you sin. "Temptation gives birth to sin"

 

[Kencj]

Hiding behind a tense are we? If you want to say something man up and say it.

OK, this makes no sense either.
OOPS my bad connection again, sorry.

 

[david_x]

Then by your argument, we should not eat.

Over eat.

No, YOU are avoiding the point I'm making about masturbation being controllable! Are we or are we not told that one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control? How is having wet dreams being in control of your thoughts?

You are still avoiding the point. It is not necessary, is it.

Ahem...
sex drive - definition of sex drive by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Sex drive Definition | Definition of Sex drive at Dictionary.com

Your dictionary disagrees with you. It is indeed a need.

It's a perceived need. Only intimacy with God can satisfy it.

Prostitution has nothing to do with masturbation, nor does homosexuality. And it is indeed a red herring, because masturbation is never mentioned in the Bible, and your argument assumes that it is.

Deuteronomy 23:12-13

My point is that neither are mentioned in the NT, but can still be wrong.

What, have you never read Romans 1?

That doesn't support you position at all, although it does point to lust being a bad thing...

 

[david_x]

OK, this makes no sense either.
OOPS my bad connection again, sorry.

He was talking down to me and I didn't appreciate it.

 

[Kencj]

Nor did I say a "desire" for sex is sinful. When you linger on it and entertain it, you sin. "Temptation gives birth to sin"

Of course the Bible nowhere teaches that if you "linger on and entertain" the desire for sex you sin.

The verse in Matt 5 says that the act of deliberately looking at someone to whom you're not married for the purpose of "desiring" them sexually is the moral equivalent of actually committing adultery, as was discussed earlier.

 

[Zebra1552]

He was talking down to me and I didn't appreciate it.

Please take a look at who was addressing you.

 

[Zebra1552]

Over eat.

That does not apply. You stated that eating is superficial. By your argument, just like masturbation, we should abstain because it is superficial. You're grasping at straws here.

You are still avoiding the point. It is not necessary, is it.

It's a perceived need. Only intimacy with God can satisfy it.

I just posted you a link that indicates that it IS a need, and now you're just dismissing it? Why are you arguing this if you've already made up your mind?

Deuteronomy 23:12-13

My point is that neither are mentioned in the NT, but can still be wrong.



That doesn't support you position at all, although it does point to lust being a bad thing...

How does it not support my position? Did you forget the original point you made, that homosexuality is okay then also because it's not in the Bible? You STILL have not properly defined lust. Another red herring.

 

[david_x]

Of course the Bible nowhere teaches that if you "linger on and entertain" the desire for sex you sin.

The verse in Matt 5 says that the act of deliberately looking at someone to whom you're not married for the purpose of "desiring" them sexually is the moral equivalent of actually committing adultery, as was discussed earlier.

That would be the temptation giving birth to sin that I just quoted.