Masturbation

[Chazemataz]

now, being a young liberal, I will possibly get my lunch handed to me by the older conservatives on here, but I am gona post this anyway because its been bothering me.

I would like to see one single passage addressing masturbation as a sin. i find it quite humurous even that people think God will send one to hell for pleasing themselves. What if a moral person who upholds the commandments and worships and prays frequently mastubates every few weeks? What is that hurting anything? I see no reason why God would care about it. God's Prophets speak out directly on matters such as premarital sex, cheating, ect. but are oddly silent on mastubation.
So if they are, then how is it a sin?

 

[tapero]

MOD NOTE:

Moved from Struggles with Sexuality to Ethics & Morality.

 

[jgarden]

"When the temptation to touch is strong, yell "Stop!" to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind. Then recite a portion of the Bible or sing a hymn."
-Mormon Guide to Self-Control

http://www.talulah.twistedpair.net/quotes.htm

This has given singing hymns in the shower a whole new meaning !!!

 

[The Nihilist]

now, being a young liberal, I will possibly get my lunch handed to me by the older conservatives on here, but I am gona post this anyway because its been bothering me.

I would like to see one single passage addressing masturbation as a sin. i find it quite humurous even that people think God will send one to hell for pleasing themselves. What if a moral person who upholds the commandments and worships and prays frequently mastubates every few weeks? What is that hurting anything? I see no reason why God would care about it. God's Prophets speak out directly on matters such as premarital sex, cheating, ect. but are oddly silent on mastubation.
So if they are, then how is it a sin?

The normal, completely stupid reason that you'll get is that it makes you lust. The real reason is that the more neurotic you are, the more serious of a christian you'll be.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Genesis 38:8-10

8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

This seems to me, however, to be a passage warning against the shirking of one's familial obligations within the kinship group.

But, then again, does it really matter? The superstitious customs of ancient Middle Eastern nomads are hardly Universal and Eternal Law.

The great prophets of Monty Python, however, are much clearer in their assessment of the morality of masturbation, when they teach the people with the awe-inspiring wisdom, "Every sperm is sacred."

On a sidenote, I do love verse 10 above...a very succinct description of how one ought to deal with people one doesn't like. Fantastic conflict resolution there.

peace

 

[Dungbeetle]

Good points.

However, there are non-religious reasons for avoiding masturbation:

http://www.porn-free.org/masturbation.htm


Quote:
"Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex."

I've even heard about a man who got turned on by his computer. I don't think that he was very happy about it. (Although the computer was flattered, I think it was concerned about the danger of short-circuiting through contact with liquid.)

 

[HazyRigby]

Quote:
"Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex."

I'm sorry, but that's crap. I touch. Every man I've ever been with has masturbated. And I've never felt that I was shortchanged in any regard, nor do I think that my partners felt that way.

How on earth would learning what pleases you make you less responsive to other people? That's like saying that if you sample a lot of different foods, you'll be less understanding when people like to eat apples.

 

[craigerNY]

.....What if a moral person who upholds the commandments and worships and prays frequently mastubates every few weeks?
.
.
.

Every few weeks? That's it?

"Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex."

I call BS. I refer to it as practice. Not to brag but I am here to tell you that the old addage "practice makes perfect" is true. While I am not perfect I have made great strides in improvement over the years and I am frequently complimented. Trust me, practice pays off.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Quote:
"Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex."

I've even heard about a man who got turned on by his computer. I don't think that he was very happy about it. (Although the computer was flattered, I think it was concerned about the danger of short-circuiting through contact with liquid.)

Translation: Don't play your guitar, or you might screw up on stage.

 

[The Nihilist]

Good points.

However, there are non-religious reasons for avoiding masturbation:

http://www.porn-free.org/masturbation.htm


Quote:
"Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex."

I've even heard about a man who got turned on by his computer. I don't think that he was very happy about it. (Although the computer was flattered, I think it was concerned about the danger of short-circuiting through contact with liquid.)

As an habitual masturbator (that's right, I said it), and someone who is sexually active, I can say without any doubt that this reasoning is worse than pickles in a milkshake.

 

[Red530]

So then why does the person feel so good when they touch? Oh, isn't it because God created this feeling in the person's body?

 

[chaz345]

I'm sorry, but that's crap. I touch. Every man I've ever been with has masturbated. And I've never felt that I was shortchanged in any regard, nor do I think that my partners felt that way.

How on earth would learning what pleases you make you less responsive to other people? That's like saying that if you sample a lot of different foods, you'll be less understanding when people like to eat apples.

If you have pretty much always masturbated, how would you know?
As one who used to touch with great regularity, I can assure you that being masturbation free improves your sex life with your spouse in ways that you just don't have a frame of reference for if you've never tried it.

 

[chaz345]

So then why does the person feel so good when they touch? Oh, isn't it because God created this feeling in the person's body?

Why do many people, even relatively non-religious ones, and ones that were never taught that masturbation is wrong feel somehow dirty after masturbating?

 

[chaz345]

As an habitual masturbator (that's right, I said it), and someone who is sexually active, I can say without any doubt that this reasoning is worse than pickles in a milkshake.

As a former habitual masturbator I can say without any doubt that you have no idea what you are missing. If you've never expereinced better, than the sex that you have now is pretty darn great, but in reality it is a pitiful shadow of what is possible.

I thought exactly the same way that you do about a year ago but let me assure you that the reasoning in the article is dead on.

 

[flicka]

I don't think it makes a whit of difference in your sex life. As a woman who has/hasn't masturbated during various points in life I can say there was no difference at all. Although I understand the sex games people play with themselves...like the idea of "self denial now for bigger payoff later" kind of thing...but that truely is mostly mental. More power to ya if it makes you happy but it doesn't have anything to do with whether masturbation itself is good or bad. Besides, some people are never going to get to the "bigger payoff later" stage so they should take what pleasure they can get.

 

[allhart]

Why do many people, even relatively non-religious ones, and ones that were never taught that masturbation is wrong feel somehow dirty after masturbating?

The thought of the act is the problem. You act the sexual deed out in your head is the same as doing it. So if you are having sex with all kinds of different people. Well you Know where I'm going with it ,so chop me now.As Jesus said you make your selves appear clean. You clean the cup on the outside ,but the cup is still dirty on the inside.

 

[fromdownunder]

Genesis 38:8-10

8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

This seems to me, however, to be a passage warning against the shirking of one's familial obligations within the kinship group.

But, then again, does it really matter? The superstitious customs of ancient Middle Eastern nomads are hardly Universal and Eternal Law.

The great prophets of Monty Python, however, are much clearer in their assessment of the morality of masturbation, when they teach the people with the awe-inspiring wisdom, "Every sperm is sacred."

On a sidenote, I do love verse 10 above...a very succinct description of how one ought to deal with people one doesn't like. Fantastic conflict resolution there.

peace

Actually, these verses can equally be intepreted as an argument against disobedience, rather than masturbation per se

I cannot see anywhere where masturbation was specifically condemned, but simply that Onan refused to have kids by his brother's wife. And he was punished for that.

Norm

 

[allhart]

Actually, these verses can equally be intepreted as an argument against disobedience, rather than masturbation per se

I cannot see anywhere where masturbation was specifically condemned, but simply that Onan refused to have kids by his brother's wife. And he was punished for that.

Norm

The principle are there. Your inner thoughts of having sex with other women before marriage and sex with other women after marriage (adultery) Fantasizing about women is mentioned in this way and is addressed ,also i believe something was said about wasting the seed.Thinking of fondling your self and doing it stead of having your wife if your married is a little morbid. Don't you think. Perverted in other words.You fill your mind with filth and you will become filthy.This is not wholesome entertainment or procreation

 

[Dungbeetle]

The principle are there. Your inner thoughts of having sex with other women before marriage and sex with other women after marriage (adultery) Fantasizing about women is mentioned in this way and is addressed ,also i believe something was said about wasting the seed.Thinking of fondling your self and doing it stead of having your wife if your married is a little morbid. Don't you think. Perverted in other words.You fill your mind with filth and you will become filthy.This is not wholesome entertainment or procreation

However, people who do it instead of getting married, really get to me. Especially the ones who preach about how wrong contraception is and how married people should be "open to life", when all the time they are "copping out" by masturbating. I think that is what Jesus meant by "white-washed tombs and hypocrites". It is one thing to be doing this instead of getting married, if you cannot manage to find a girlfriend/boyfriend but quite another thing when you turn your nose up at people who are interested in you and then go home and do it yourself. That is perverted IMO.

And then there are the women who have decided not to have any more children, only they cannot use contraception because they are Catholic, so they stop ALL relations with their husband in favour of DIY. There is something wrong there, too.

 

[fromdownunder]

The principle are there. Your inner thoughts of having sex with other women before marriage and sex with other women after marriage (adultery) Fantasizing about women is mentioned in this way and is addressed ,also i believe something was said about wasting the seed.Thinking of fondling your self and doing it stead of having your wife if your married is a little morbid. Don't you think. Perverted in other words.You fill your mind with filth and you will become filthy.This is not wholesome entertainment or procreation

You seem to be defending the Biblical quote (where Onan was killed by God for not impregnating his brothers wife - that is adultery), while condemning adultery and thoughts of adultary at the same time. This lacks a bit of consistancy. Please clarify.

And every time a man has sex with his wife when she is not fertile (approx. 20-22 days out of each 28) is "wasting seed" as you put it. So, are you genuinely suggesting that sex should be limited to a woman's menstrual cycle?

Third, each time a man [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], there is not one "seed", but millions (and every day he does not have sex, "seed", for want of a better term, "dies" and ceases becoming viable.

So, every day of his life that a potent male does not have sex with a fertile woman is "wasting seed", based on what you said.

Edited to add: You totally missed the point of my original post, which was that the quoted passage does not, on a casual reading, condemn masturbation per se, but is an argument for a punishment because Onan specifically (yes, I needed to bold that) disregarded an order/command, which was to make a baby with his borther's wife.

Please either address the point of my original or this post, without generalisation and side issues, or simply not respond at all.

Thanks.

Norm