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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Yes, but some things are surely timeless.Seeking... said:
On the surface, that sounds right. However, I'm also reminded of the cases where I've seen someone go through extremely trying times -- and then go on to be a source of encouragement and understanding to another person going through the same thing. That's a good that couldn't be pursued apart from deep woundedness.
Incidentally, this line of argument doesn't demonstrate anything about the moral help of masturbation for the non-abused individual. We're dealing with a relatively narrow subset of the masturbating public here. I still haven't seen anyone suggest how masturbation helps the rest of us along in our moral development.
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Chrysalis Kat
Gettin' Riggy With It
Hilarious. Do they have them for folks that are obsessed with being obsessed with sex sin too?Angel4Truth said:
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It's not acceptable for the husband to fail to consider his wife, no. However, there's nothing morally deleterious about going through life without an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].Lokisdottir said:
I tend to think that the individual really enamored with becoming who she was really meant to be -- the original meaning of "virtue," by the way, is just "the quality of being fully human" -- won't be too concerned with little things like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] or ice cream. They're sort of chicken scratch in comparison.
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iconmaster said:
I don't understand. Are you saying pleasurable things aren't necessary if you are striving to be morally virtuous? Isn't a persons sexuality part of "the quality of being fully human"? If someone wants to forgo all human pleasure in the name of virtue then so be it, but I don't think it's meaningful to anyone but them, or biblical for that matter.
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Lokisdottir
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What if one considers it a virtue to not take the little things in this life for granted?iconmaster said:
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M
Matt Never Existed
Guest
Is masturbation a sin? Hmm.. good question. I don't have evidence for or against. I do know that there are medical reasons for it being a good thing, but there are other ways of 'checking ones self' for problems.
I have a few verses that say the 'waste of seed(sperm)' is a sin, but this is in Leviticus, a book no one here upholds, but everyone uses to bash masturbation and homosexuality. (Gotta love the "Pick & Choose" Bible worshipers)
I say, if you feel as though your sinning when you touch, then you shouldn't do so. If you don't feel as though its wrong, then go ahead. But, don't tell others that its ok, since it might be a stumbling block for them, which would inturn make you sin.
~shrug~
Also, every man (and the majority of women) have masturbated before. I admit that I do so frequently, even being in a relationship for 1 and a half years now. ~shrug~ If a guy says he doesn't/hasn't done it before, he is out-right lying to your face, and I wouldn't trust anything he said.
-Matt
I have a few verses that say the 'waste of seed(sperm)' is a sin, but this is in Leviticus, a book no one here upholds, but everyone uses to bash masturbation and homosexuality. (Gotta love the "Pick & Choose" Bible worshipers)
I say, if you feel as though your sinning when you touch, then you shouldn't do so. If you don't feel as though its wrong, then go ahead. But, don't tell others that its ok, since it might be a stumbling block for them, which would inturn make you sin.
~shrug~
Also, every man (and the majority of women) have masturbated before. I admit that I do so frequently, even being in a relationship for 1 and a half years now. ~shrug~ If a guy says he doesn't/hasn't done it before, he is out-right lying to your face, and I wouldn't trust anything he said.
-Matt
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Chavez
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For those who live according to
the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who live
according to the Spirit, the things
of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is
death, but to be spiritually minded
is life and peace.
Romans 8:5-6
By lusting in your heart you are shifting God from the seat of focus and placing temptation upon it. We are practically idolising the object of our lust.
Therefore put to death your
members which are on the earth:
fornication, uncleanness, passion,
evil desire, and covetousness, which
is idolatry.
Colossians 3:5
Our bodies belong to God. We should use them only to His glory. If you were suddenly made aware that God was standing at the other side of the room while you were masturbating how would you react?
Or do you not know that your
body is the temple of the Holy SPirit
who is in you, whom you have from
God, and you are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:19
[yes lusting is part of masturbation if you're about to ask]
the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who live
according to the Spirit, the things
of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is
death, but to be spiritually minded
is life and peace.
Romans 8:5-6
By lusting in your heart you are shifting God from the seat of focus and placing temptation upon it. We are practically idolising the object of our lust.
Therefore put to death your
members which are on the earth:
fornication, uncleanness, passion,
evil desire, and covetousness, which
is idolatry.
Colossians 3:5
Our bodies belong to God. We should use them only to His glory. If you were suddenly made aware that God was standing at the other side of the room while you were masturbating how would you react?
Or do you not know that your
body is the temple of the Holy SPirit
who is in you, whom you have from
God, and you are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:19
[yes lusting is part of masturbation if you're about to ask]
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sparklecat
Senior Contributor
Chavez said:
In your experience, maybe. Can you claim to know what others' experiences are?
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I'm saying that virtue is itself a higher pleasure than our bodily satisfactions.flicka said:
Yes, but sexuality runs much deeper than our sexual urges. It comes out in certain non-genital expressions. (E.g.: for men work, for women, nurture or some such.)
Not biblical? Are we reading the same book?
Chavez pointed to one relevant passage:
What are the "things of the Spirit" if they're not the pursuit of holiness, the fruits of the Spirit, moral purity, etc.?
Of course (and this is important), I'm not saying masturbation is contrary to holiness. I'm saying that they compete for the same space -- attention, time and so on. The question we ought to be asking ourselves, when this temptation presents itself, is not "is it a sin?" but rather "what else ought I to be doing instead, that would further my discovery of God's purposes for my life?"
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There are many "little things" we can appreciate in creation without resorting to "appreciating" our genitalia. Or ice cream, for that matter.Lokisdottir said:
However, I'm not advocating a life of asceticism, in which one denies herself things for the sake of the denial itself. I'm advocating a life in which some greater good fills one's purview to the point of pushing out lesser things.
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iconmaster said:
Well I agree with the first part. But where do you draw the line on the last? Does playing softball bring you closer to God? Hobbies? Window shopping? I can think of a million things that can fit that scenario. Nobody can devout 100% of their time to God and 0% to their own happiness. Well I suppose they can but I wouldn't want to be friends with those people.
And Chavez...
If you lust when you touch (I'm guessing you would have had to in order to know this) and you think lusting is a sin then by all means don't do it. I personally do not have a problem with lust and would appreciate you not trying to speak for the entire population. Thanks.
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I am not in the habit of giving opinions or what i personally think because in the end my opinion won't count, only what the word says. Therefore I will answer your question, but according to the "Word".
Understand that the "act" of masturbation begins in the MIND. The word says that it is with the MIND that we serve the Lord and that as believers we are to cast down every imagination (created in our minds) and thought that seeks to exault itself above the knowledge and power of God. Once again masturbation begins in our minds with perverted or lustful thoughts, or something our mind takes in from TV or the NET. We allow these thoughts to grow and grow until our flesh (carnal desires) get the best of us and what we know we shouldn't do, we do. Masturbation isn't the sin, it is the result of sin. The actual sin are the thoughts and perversion you allowed to control you up to that point. The reason these thoughts are sinful is because you've allowed your temple to be defiled by perverted and immoral thoughts. We as Christians, not ever being perfect must do what we can to gaurd our MINDS.
I didn't mean to get deep but I try to give a good undestanding. Be Blessed and gaurd your MIND!!!
Understand that the "act" of masturbation begins in the MIND. The word says that it is with the MIND that we serve the Lord and that as believers we are to cast down every imagination (created in our minds) and thought that seeks to exault itself above the knowledge and power of God. Once again masturbation begins in our minds with perverted or lustful thoughts, or something our mind takes in from TV or the NET. We allow these thoughts to grow and grow until our flesh (carnal desires) get the best of us and what we know we shouldn't do, we do. Masturbation isn't the sin, it is the result of sin. The actual sin are the thoughts and perversion you allowed to control you up to that point. The reason these thoughts are sinful is because you've allowed your temple to be defiled by perverted and immoral thoughts. We as Christians, not ever being perfect must do what we can to gaurd our MINDS.
I didn't mean to get deep but I try to give a good undestanding. Be Blessed and gaurd your MIND!!!
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Ninja Turtles
Secrecy and Accountability Cannot Co-Exist
What is lust and perversion, I'd like to see some common definitions.Just like Paul said:
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Thank You for Asking.
According to the laymans dictionary pg193 of the 2003 ediion lust is defined as:
Lust - evil desire, usually associated with a sex drive. "the bible advises us to flee lust.
Perversion - the changing of something good, true, or correct into something bad or wrong or a situation in which the change has occurred
Understand that sex was created to be pleasurable and an experience to be shared between a man and a woman in the union of marraige. The Apostle Paul stated that it is better to marry than to burn (burning is in relation to the lust of your carnal desire). Lust can also be rooted in stuff and things as well, not just sex as the definition points out.
According to the laymans dictionary pg193 of the 2003 ediion lust is defined as:
Lust - evil desire, usually associated with a sex drive. "the bible advises us to flee lust.
Perversion - the changing of something good, true, or correct into something bad or wrong or a situation in which the change has occurred
Understand that sex was created to be pleasurable and an experience to be shared between a man and a woman in the union of marraige. The Apostle Paul stated that it is better to marry than to burn (burning is in relation to the lust of your carnal desire). Lust can also be rooted in stuff and things as well, not just sex as the definition points out.
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Ninja Turtles
Secrecy and Accountability Cannot Co-Exist
I think many of us prefer to use the Merriam-Webster dictionary, which describes lust as: usually intense or unbridled sexual desire. The Layman's dictionary just seems to couple lust with sex drive, which to me is a ludicrous definition. And then of course perversion seems to be a rather skewed definition saying what is good and bad, and tends to be overused when it really is against someone's accepted practice. However, I have little quibble with the definition, the problem is that people pair sexual desire with lust and that's just wrong. Lust is about obsession, not attraction. Quite frankly, men are very much sexually motivated, no matter how one conducts himself. As sad as it is to say, they base a lot on looks, which are motivated by sexual desire. Women don't think like that primarily.Just like Paul said:
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invisible trousers
~*this post promotes non-nicene christianity*~
Just like Paul said:
I agree. After all, people didn't touch before television.
This also means that any sexual activity is a sin.
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