Masturbation... is it wrong?

Chavez · May 9, 2005

No. I don't think masturbation is adultery within the heart.
You've missed my point entirely.

Somebody was pointin out that lust doesn't hurt anybody else...unlike other sin..murder for example.
So...I went ahead and used adultery within the heart to show people how things can hurt the mentality of a person and what God tells us about in in scripture. Must like lust.

Danhalen · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
No. I don't think masturbation is adultery within the heart.
You've missed my point entirely.

Somebody was pointin out that lust doesn't hurt anybody else...much like other sin..murder for example.
So...I went ahead and used adultery within the heart to show people how things can hurt the mentality of a person and what God tells us about in in scripture. Must like lust.

So are you saying that masturbation is lust? What exactly are you saying? Once you have clearly defined what you are saying, could you rationally defend what you are saying?

What is masturbation?

Why is masturbation wrong?

Can you defend your stance on why you think this way?

Please answer those three questions.

KindGuardian · May 9, 2005

Of course touching yourself is a sin. It's lust in your heart. You think about sensual realationships with some one else that isn't nessicarily your life-partner. On another note, it does harm other people. It degrades other people, particularly the person you may be fanticising about. Also, what about your furture husband/wife. Say for instance, they saved themselfs for you, tried not to think pervertedly about anyone else to save all their sensual love for you. Will you be able to present the same dedication, will you be able to say that yuo've saved all your thoughts for them? No, and that can be emotionaly hurtfull to your spouse. Also, this lust shows an enslavement of the flesh. It shows that you are a slave to your own sinfull desires, but what you want is dependancy on God. You want to depend on God to get you through your lust of the flesh.Galatians 5:19 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

Chavez · May 9, 2005

What is masturbation?

* Stimulation of the sexual organs by manipulation; usually by oneself. Generally practised in order to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Why is masturbation wrong?

I believe personally that masturbation is wrong. All I can do is put my view across and tell you what the Bible has to say about lust. Some people say you don't lust when you are masturbating. I'm not in the position to argue with them but I do believe it involves lust.

Can I defend why I think this way?

I should hope so! lol

Lust is a sexual desire minus honour and holiness.
When we choose to lust, we are actively rejecting God.
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8 states:
"For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a
holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction
does not reject man but God, who give you His
Holy Spirit."
Lust is always an unholy desire for the forbidden. It can never be quenched. As soon as you get what you want...lust wants more!

Lust is a serious sin...masturbation is one expression of a lustful heart.
"To set the mind on the flesh is death, but
to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace"
Romans 8:6
[the mind]

Masturbation is an indicator that we're feeding the wrong desires.

I've said some of this earlier...but I said I might as well bung it into one.

And that sums up my beliefs on the situation. You may think otherwise and I am open to what you might think of it.

I think something that has helped me a lot up to now...
is if I feel something I'm doing is wrong. Then it is.
When you touch and afterwards you felt as if you had done wrong? That's got to be a huge indicator.
However, I'm not sayin everbody experiences this.

Thanks for your time!

KindGuardian · May 9, 2005

What is masturbation?

Pervert, lol. Well, it's the action, which involves thinking about people in a sensual way.

Chavez · May 9, 2005

KindGuardian said:
Of course touching yourself is a sin. It's lust in your heart. You think about sensual realationships with some one else that isn't nessicarily your life-partner. On another note, it does harm other people. It degrades other people, particularly the person you may be fanticising about. Also, what about your furture husband/wife. Say for instance, they saved themselfs for you, tried not to think pervertedly about anyone else to save all their sensual love for you. Will you be able to present the same dedication, will you be able to say that yuo've saved all your thoughts for them? No, and that can be emotionaly hurtfull to your spouse. Also, this lust shows an enslavement of the flesh. It shows that you are a slave to your own sinfull desires, but what you want is dependancy on God. You want to depend on God to get you through your lust of the flesh.Galatians 5:19 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

Nicely put.

Danhalen · May 9, 2005

KindGuardian said:
Of course touching yourself is a sin. It's lust in your heart.

Is it? Can you demonstrate this please?

You think about sensual realationships with some one else that isn't nessicarily your life-partner.

Just because it could be that way, does not mean that it is that way. Why do you assume that masturbation is wrong on the basis that it involves someone other than husband or wife? Can you demonstrate that it always is about someone other than those people?

On another note, it does harm other people. It degrades other people, particularly the person you may be fanticising about.

How is it degrading to another person? Why must there even be a thought about another person? If no one specific person is involved, then no one is hurt by it. But really, please explain why it is degrading to another person.

Also, what about your furture husband/wife. Say for instance, they saved themselfs for you, tried not to think pervertedly about anyone else to save all their sensual love for you. Will you be able to present the same dedication, will you be able to say that yuo've saved all your thoughts for them? No, and that can be emotionaly hurtfull to your spouse.

This is just silly. We like to call this emotional blackmail. If you do not actually have sex with another person, you are not cheating. I do not mean the Bill Clinton definition of sexual relations either. Two people that wish to remain chaste (as you have described) will find each other. If they don't, you can't blame everyone else that doesn't feel the same way.

Also, this lust shows an enslavement of the flesh. It shows that you are a slave to your own sinfull desires, but what you want is dependancy on God. You want to depend on God to get you through your lust of the flesh.Galatians 5:19 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

Is there a comma between sexual and immorality? I didn't think so. You need to explain why masturbation is immoral in a sexual context.

Chavez · May 9, 2005

didn't you even read mine?
*sigh*
these days.....

Danhalen · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
What is masturbation?

* Stimulation of the sexual organs by manipulation; usually by oneself. Generally practised in order to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

We agree on this point.

Why is masturbation wrong?

I believe personally that masturbation is wrong. All I can do is put my view across and tell you what the Bible has to say about lust. Some people say you don't lust when you are masturbating. I'm not in the position to argue with them but I do believe it involves lust.

Why do you believe it involves lust? Can you demonstrate that? This is the crux of your entire argument. Never once in this entire argument have you shown that masturbation is a lustful behavior. You merely assert that it is. It is because of this that your argument fails.

Danhalen · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
didn't you even read mine?
*sigh*
these days.....

I did. I try to respond in chronological order, so as not to confuse the logical flow of the thread.

Impatient a bit, aren't you?

Cheli · May 9, 2005

On another note, it does harm other people. It degrades other people, particularly the person you may be fanticising about.

I personally would be somewhat flattered actually. Whilst this goes against every feminist fibre in my body, it is always flattering to be thought attractive, isn't it?

You think about sensual realationships with some one else that isn't nessicarily your life-partner.

So is it ok to touch whilst thinking of one's spouse who one knows is not offended?

Also, what about your furture husband/wife. Say for instance, they saved themselfs for you, tried not to think pervertedly about anyone else to save all their sensual love for you.

1. Unless you tell them - they ain't gonna know
2.They probably assume you do it anyway (as most people do - not saying they shuld or shouldn't, just stating a fact)
3.They probably do it

Will you be able to present the same dedication, will you be able to say that yuo've saved all your thoughts for them?

Would it matter? I'd say 99% of the population will have been attracted to other people before they meet their spouse and 99% will be attracted to other people after they ar emarried. Never had a crush on a celebrity or anything?

I think the only word that can sum up your post is 'naive'.

sparklecat · May 9, 2005

KindGuardian said:
Of course touching yourself is a sin. It's lust in your heart. You think about sensual realationships with some one else that isn't nessicarily your life-partner. On another note, it does harm other people. It degrades other people, particularly the person you may be fanticising about.

I can't remember a single fantasy I've had about an actual person I know/know of. If the person is not thinking about sensual relationships with anyone, do you still have a problem with it?

Chavez · May 9, 2005

Danhalen said:
We agree on this point.

Why do you believe it involves lust? Can you demonstrate that? This is the crux of your entire argument. Never once in this entire argument have you shown that masturbation is a lustful behavior. You merely assert that it is. It is because of this that your argument fails.

The reason being that I can't prove that masturbation involves lusting is also the same that I can't prove that somebody is plotting a murder in their heads. But...I can however go on a personal based judgement and on books I have read regarding the issue at hand. You don't get turned on from lookin at your wallpaper. You get turned on by the opposite sex. Sexual stimulation which brings us to the act of masturbation.

There is no commandment in the Bible regarding masturbation. However, we do have a clear command from Jesus, concerning sexually lusting after a person who is not your spouse.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28.

Dennis Rupert said:
Most people that I have spoken to on this issue, touch using pornography, images or imagination to lust after someone who is not their spouse. Sexual excitement starts in the mind, not your sex organs. We'd like to think that fantasies are harmless and hurt no one. This is simply not true. As a man thinks in his heart, so he is. (Proverbs 23:7). [as i was saying earlier].

Masturbation opens the door to the deceiving influences of lust.

Embracing lust and masturbation will hinder any progress we want to make in becoming the "new man" God created us to be.

1 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV) further confirms this, saying that unlawful sexual relations defile our own bodies. "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

All sexual immorality begins with a thought. If we do not deal with our evil thoughts, they will take root in our heart.

Chavez · May 9, 2005

sparklecat said:
I can't remember a single fantasy I've had about an actual person I know/know of. If the person is not thinking about sensual relationships with anyone, do you still have a problem with it?

Having any immoral thoughts is wrong.

"For all that is in the world-the
lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life-is not of the
Father but is of the world."
1John 2:16

sparklecat · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
Having any immoral thoughts is wrong.

"For all that is in the world-the
lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes,
and the pride of life-is not of the
Father but is of the world."
1John 2:16

Ok, but what is an immoral thought?

Danhalen · May 9, 2005

sparklecat said:
Ok, but what is an immoral thought?

Thank you. I was thinking the same thing.

Chavez · May 9, 2005

sparklecat said:
Ok, but what is an immoral thought?

Immoral - inconsistent with principles or standards, wrong; evil; sexually improper.

Obviously we live by the Bible.

Honestly don't any of you guys have a dictionary! lol

sparklecat · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
Immoral - inconsistent with principles or standards, wrong; evil; sexually improper.

Obviously we live by the Bible.

Honestly don't any of you guys have a dictionary! lol

Dictionary definitions are not much help in this case. I'm not asking for synonyms of the word immoral, I'm asking what counts as immoral. Is it anything at all related to sex? Anything that gets you personally aroused? Are there qualifiers to it, such as it not being immoral if you are married and thinking about your spouse? What makes something immoral in this sense, and more importantly - why?

Chavez · May 9, 2005

It's immoral if it's something that the Bible forbids
or
inconsistent with principles or standards.

sparklecat · May 9, 2005

Chavez said:
It's immoral if it's something that the Bible forbids
or
inconsistent with principles or standards.

And what does the Bible forbid in terms of thoughts?

Which principles or standards? What do these principles/standards say?

Masturbation... is it wrong?

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