masturbation challenge

[gengwall]

There's nothing wrong with masturbation regardless of whether you're married or single, thinking of your significant other or a stranger, etc.

I wonder if you will feel the same if, when you are married, your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

 

[stan1980]

I wonder if you will feel the same when you are married and your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

You can fantasise about someone else either imaginary or real, without that resulting in you cheating or loving your fantasy more than your partner. Ask yourself this, have you ever thought about someone else either masturbating or during sex? You don't have to answer but I bet the answer is yes, and by the looks of your marriage symbol, it probably hasn't caused the end of you marriage.

Thinking about it, someone here on CF recommended a book to me a few weeks back on the subject, and it has brought me to the conclusion that it is probably quite healthy for your sex life to fantasise about other things other than your partner.

 

[gengwall]

You can fantasise about someone else either imaginary or real, without that resulting in you cheating or loving your fantasy more than your partner. Ask yourself this, have you ever thought about someone else either masturbating or during sex? You don't have to answer but I bet the answer is yes, and by the looks of your marriage symbol, it probably hasn't caused the end of you marriage.

Thinking about it, someone here on CF recommended a book to me a few weeks back on the subject, and it has brought me to the conclusion that it is probably quite healthy for your sex life to fantasise about other things other than your partner.

Actually, an addiction to pornography and masturbation did almost end my marriage. The casual thought here and there is certainly not cause for great alarm. But a preoccupation that destroys intimacy with your spouse is tragic. When it comes to fantasy and masturbation, there is a very real slippery slope many men have slid rapidly down. That is all I'm getting at. Masturbation is not always harmless.

Now, from a strickly Chrisitan perspective, those "harmless" thoughts are indeed adulterous.

 

[quatona]

I wonder if you will feel the same if, when you are married, your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

I don´t think I want to deduce ethical standards from jealousy.

 

[gengwall]

I don´t think I want to deduce ethical standards from jealousy.

huh?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Technical note. There was a 3rd brother but Judah shielded him from Tamar for fear he would also be killed. When Tamar, who apparently was keen on the whole levirate heir thing, saw she had been cheated not only by Onan but by his father Judah as well, she disguised herself as a prostitute and saw to it that Judah himself impregnated her (he apparently did not put up much of a fight.) When it was later exposed that he was the father of Tamar's unborn son, he accepted the blame for his part in the conspiracy and held her blameless even though she deceived him. The eventual son Perez (one of twins), was the forefather of David who was the forefather of Jesus, which probably explains God's heightened interest in the whole sordid affair.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the topic, so onward we go...

Well of course Tamar was blameless. She was just fulfilling God’s design for marriage and the family

 

[Caitlin.ann]

I wonder if you will feel the same if, when you are married, your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

Umm as an engaged woman, trust me I know that would not happen. It definitely would not happen..

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I'm a bit on the edge with this one. Spiritually wise the lust factor is rather serious, but then where does that end? Does that mean I'm sinning every time I comment on a guys appearance? When Jesus describes "lust of the mind" it's so vague. So imaginary characters? Your own spouse? Where does it cover?

However medically wise, there are no physical side affects and it's actually very beneficial. It helps reduce insomnia, it reduces stress and for women can ease cramps. And unlike normal sex there's no risk of pregnancy or STDs. And I'm trying very hard not to make a joke about it Stan so don't

So spiritually, I'm unsure. Medically, I'm sure it's fine. Mentally, it depends. There are cases, especially in adolescence where it does become an addiction. Like all things, too much of it is a bad thing. For younger teenagers and even older, it can become hard to distinguish reality from fantasy. Personally, the idea of being mentally undressed is less than desired, and that is something that masturbation can lead too.

P.S. To say masturbation is always about a husband (or wife, women can touch too) prefering fantasy over their real life partner, is encouraging the myth. Like I said, masturbation is a safe sex. There are couples who do it together, there are couples who recognize their S.O is into it, etc.

P.S.S. I don't support pornography however. Those are real women. There's a huge line between lusting after a fantasy which will never be real, and lusting after real women.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Everyone loves monty python... and everyone has had "Every sperm is sacred" stuck in their head at one point or another....

So... some people find masturbation to be perfectly normal and healthy... while others consider it a sin. This question's been asked plenty of times... Some point out that fetuses touch before birth... but does that make it right? Some say it's good for your health... certainly want to make sure "those parts" stay in good shape, right? Yet others will point out ala monty python: The spilling of one's seed is a sin. And even if you didn't "get to that point" ... it's still a product of lust... and to lust after someone is one step away from committing the act.

We're not to the question yet... almost...

So... is it the act itself, or one of those parts?

To cover the lust aspect... what if you're married, and you're thinking about your partner at the moment... Surely lusting after your spouse isn't wrong. As for spilling one's seed... What if it's a wife with "some extra time on her hands?" There is no "seed" to be spilled there.

So... I've heard all the arguments for masturbation being healthy and natural and acceptable... But for those opposed to the idea... What is there left to prohibit a married woman from masturbating while thinking of her husband?

Or is it only wrong for men?

Just figured I'd toss that out there and see where the ball rolled. (Again, this is a "what's wrong with it?" question... I'd prefer if people didn't take up space with the "it's perfectly natural" idea. That's been suggested plenty and I wanna give the other side room to speak)

It is not immoral to do that, I mean you wouldn't tell your mom about it, but probably your wife. If nature calls you should relieve yourself of the hormones, that ultimately are bothering you. Not a thing wrong with it, it is part of being a man. It is better to have sex though for the emotional affects of falling in love. Really, you have too much time on your hands, if you are worried about that, don't major in minors.

 

[cantata]

Okay, thanks for the heads up. If I'm going to be picky though, I'd say the part I've highlighted is a touch obnoxious. I'm sure you'd agree that not all men have a narrow view of sex, nor is having a narrow view of sex an exclusive male trait.

Nope, the 'male' view and narrow view I refer to are different.

And no, not all men possess the male view.

 

[cantata]

There is no prevailing opinion in "the church". In fact, there is no prevailing opinion even within many denominations. The four main approaches to masturbation in the church are, in order from strictest to most lenient:

It is a sin, period.
It has great potential to be harmful to self or relationships and therefore should be rare and well considered before engaging in.
It is a natural and God given outlet and therefore is almost always acceptable.
There are no spiritual or religious ramifications, so knock yourself out.

Ah! If I may say so, you have very much changed your tune on "the church's" position. Remember this thread at all?

I wonder if you will feel the same if, when you are married, your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

If this occurs, there is already a problem, of which masturbation is not the cause, but a symptom. In any case, as quatona says, I would prefer not to base decisions about the ethics of such a widely practised activity as masturbation on the jealousy of a few spouses.

If my partner masturbated so much that I felt that I was neglected, that he failed to take an interested in me or my feelings in general, then there would be a problem. But that goes for anything: if he spent so much time watching football, or cooking, or with another woman, or with his friends, or going out dancing, that I felt our relationship was deteriorating, I would be troubled. Masturbation is no different, as far as I am concerned, and no more 'dangerous' to relationships than any of these things, unless it happens to be something by which you are personally bothered more than the others. And why would you be? I would submit that you would only be more bothered by masturbation than by other pastimes because of ignorance about the nature of masturbation and sex, and/or petty jealousy.

 

[stan1980]

Nope, the 'male' view and narrow view I refer to are different.

So what is the male view of sex you are referring to?

 

[Tiberius]

if all sperm is sacred, why is it that a man produces millions of them to do a job that only takes one and all the others are wasted? Why the waste if they are sacred?

And likewise, one can make an argument that a woman's eggs are sacred, and she only produces one each month. But she has stored within her body thousands of them, and even if she produces one a month she can't use all of them. And if they really are sacred, she should get pregnant with each and every egg released from her ovaries, and that don't happen either.

 

[cantata]

So what is the male view of sex you are referring to?

Well, for some men (obviously not all), masturbation is simply a substitute for sex.

 

[stan1980]

Women too sometimes complain about their partner masturbating. You only need to read the problems pages of a magazine or newspaper to find that out.

I think you're wrong to suggest it is a very male view that men don't like their partner masturbating, and considering you've picked me up on stereotyping in the past, I'm a little surprised to hear you do the same thing.

 

[gengwall]

Ah! If I may say so, you have very much changed your tune on "the church's" position. Remember this thread at all?

Not changed my tune at all. The two predominant views are the first two that I listed here and the two I referred to there. My point is simply that there is no definative opinion of "the church".

If this occurs, there is already a problem, of which masturbation is not the cause, but a symptom. In any case, as quatona says, I would prefer not to base decisions about the ethics of such a widely practised activity as masturbation on the jealousy of a few spouses.

If my partner masturbated so much that I felt that I was neglected, that he failed to take an interested in me or my feelings in general, then there would be a problem. But that goes for anything: if he spent so much time watching football, or cooking, or with another woman, or with his friends, or going out dancing, that I felt our relationship was deteriorating, I would be troubled. Masturbation is no different, as far as I am concerned, and no more 'dangerous' to relationships than any of these things, unless it happens to be something by which you are personally bothered more than the others. And why would you be? I would submit that you would only be more bothered by masturbation than by other pastimes because of ignorance about the nature of masturbation and sex, and/or petty jealousy.

Exactly. And if such a problem existed, then masturbation would be a part of it. So you do agree that there is potential for masturbation to be problematic. It is not universally and all inclusively good.

 

[gengwall]

Umm as an engaged woman, trust me I know that would not happen. It definitely would not happen..

Congrats on your engagement...and stop being so naive. You have no idea what the future holds. Nobody walks into marriage or any other life phase intending to become addicted and ruin their family. But sh** happens.

 

[cantata]

Women too sometimes complain about their partner masturbating. You only need to read the problems pages of a magazine or newspaper to find that out.

I think you're wrong to suggest it is a very male view that men don't like their partner masturbating, and considering you've picked me up on stereotyping in the past, I'm a little surprised to hear you do the same thing.

I've not said anything of the sort.

 

[cantata]

Exactly. And if such a problem existed, then masturbation would be a part of it. So you do agree that there is potential for masturbation to be problematic. It is not universally and all inclusively good.

The masturbation would not be the problem. The neglect would. There is no point in singling out masturbation when it is no more potentially problematic than anyone else. It would be better to deal with the issues that might cause someone to focus more on masturbation, or anything else, than on their partner's happiness.

 

[stan1980]

I've not said anything of the sort.

But if you have a very narrow view of sex (or, indeed, if you have a very male view of sex), I suppose the thought of your partner masturbating might bother you

What does that mean then?

Edit: Lets play with your words and see where we go:

But if you have a very prudish view of sex (or, indeed, if you have a very female view of sex), I suppose the thought of your partner masturbating might bother you

What would you make of that statement?