masturbation challenge

[cantata]

"If you are a female on the road, you might be a bad driver"
"If you are a female in an argument, you might be being irrational"
"If you are a female looking in your wing mirror, you might be fixing your make up"
"If you are a female married to a wealthy man, you might be a gold digger"

Etc.

Please don't attempt to read anything more into what I've said.

A poor analogy. I am talking about a male way of looking at things - that is, a way in which many men and some women choose to look at the world. "Masculine", if you prefer. You are talking about being a woman - quite a different thing.

I have no problem with a sentence like this:

"If you have a very female way of looking in the rear-view mirror, you may be doing your makeup." (Who uses the wing mirror to do their makeup?!)

That allows for men looking in the rear-view mirror and doing their makeup, too, you see.

But in any case, I wasn't talking about activities or the probabilities of being involved with them. I was talking about a kind of view about the world - a kind of view I describe as 'male', by virtue of it being a view I believe many men, and not so many women, hold - which is likely to lead to a certain attitude towards the behaviour of one's partner.

 

[quatona]

masturbation challenge

Accepted. What are the terms and conditions?

 

[The Gregorian]

I wonder if you will feel the same if, when you are married, your husband prefers himself and his fantasy lovers over you. Such global answers as yours rarely address the depth and breadth of real life circumstances we find ourselves in. Certainly, you can construct SOME reasonable scenario even in your pagan realm where it would be wrong.

But see, it's the withholding of himself that is the sin. Not the masturbation. I believe it's in corinthians that it states that a man's body does not belong to himself, but to his wife, and that the two are not to go withholding themselves from the other.

Say the husband with holds himself from his wife... for work or whatnot. So the wife "takes care of herself" during these busy times... Did the woman sin or the man?

or if one is just... uumm... energetic? Both have a very healthy relationship... but one just... you know... has more spunk. Would it be better to "release some of the pressure" alone, or force the other into satisfying them and potentially damaging the relationship... making physical love a requirement rather than something to be shared?

That's like saying alcohol isn't the problem, or drugs aren't the problem, or work isn't the problem, or World of Warcraft isn't the problem,

EXACTLY. Back when I had a relationship, I would drink on occasion. Rarely, and in moderation... I can't recall a time it was more than one glass... but alcohol isn't inherently bad... it's when alcohol is ABUSED that it becomes a problem.

I also used to play WoW (for a short time, guild wars, City of Heroes, and EQOA were all much better games)... the game itself does not equate to ignoring your partner... it's when you ignore your partner that it becomes a problem. (although, my last relationship was to a point where if I TOUCHED the computer while my girlfriend was home, she was angry at me for ignoring her... so I would go to her and ask if she wanted to do anything, suggest going somewhere, and she never had any ideas, and never wanted to do anything... she just did not want me touching the computer... it offended her. She would rather we sit in the living room not doing anything because then I wouldn't be paying attention to anything else. Of course if she were reading and I interrupted her, she would throw a fit.)

But yea... it's not any of those issues that is the problem... it's the abuse of those issues... the ignoring of your partner... not the issue itself.

 

[The Gregorian]

Sure, just like lettuce, Girls Aloud, Nietzsche, or Windows Vista can be damaging for certain individuals. Everything can be damaging. Why single out masturbation?

Or why single out WoW?


... course WoW is bad because it has far too many servers encouraging people to waste money transferring characters. CoH or Guild wars is better.

(BTW - as far as I know, lettuce, Nietzsche, and absolutely Windows Vista are not addictive. I don't know what Girls Aloud is, but if it's anything like Girls Gone Wild, it might be addicitve).

Not so much that they're addictive, but they can be detrimental. If someone were obsessed with salads and ate so much lettuce they couldn't maintain a healthy weight... that could be not only hazardous to a relationship, but unhealthy. Lettuce has no nutritional value, and lots of fiber, pushing through anything your body COULD have used for nutrients.

Nietzsche had some very radical views... and I can see how an obsession with his ways of thinking could be an problem.

Windows Vista has SERIOUS compatibility issues and can make it harder to install programs and even printers.

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] is "girls aloud?"

 

[The Gregorian]

"If you are a female on the road, you might be a bad driver"
"If you are a female in an argument, you might be being irrational"
"If you are a female looking in your wing mirror, you might be fixing your make up"
"If you are a female married to a wealthy man, you might be a gold digger"

Etc.

I can not "lol" enough to adequately portray my approval of this... but I'm certain it would contain the word "roflcopter."

... but I'm just spiteful.


On a more intelligent note: The point of the above, I believe, is to point out SOME women fall into stereotypes... some women do not. It's just as silly to say "If you are a female in an argument, you might be being irrational" as it is to put forth any of the suggestions from this thread about how males view sex.

SOME males view sex in certain ways, some view it in other ways. My room mate and I have VERY different viewpoints on sex. He will do whatever he can with whoever he can... with absolutely no standards whatsoever... As long as they don't have red hair he doesn't even care if it's a girl, as long as it's warm.

I've ONLY done ANYTHING sexual with girls I honestly planned on marrying... which haven't been many... partially because of my piety and upstanding moral fiber... and partially because I'm a homely bastard with no motivation or social skills.

... I'm so lonely.

 

[stan1980]

I was talking about a kind of view about the world - a kind of view I describe as 'male', by virtue of it being a view I believe many men, and not so many women, hold - which is likely to lead to a certain attitude towards the behaviour of one's partner.

What do you base this on though? Personally, I can't ever recall any of my male friends ever saying they have a problem with their partner masturbating. Maybe it is just the male company that I keep, or maybe your male generalisation conclusion just isn't very accurate, or not very helpful?

On a more intelligent note: The point of the above, I believe, is to point out SOME women fall into stereotypes... some women do not. It's just as silly to say "If you are a female in an argument, you might be being irrational" as it is to put forth any of the suggestions from this thread about how males view sex.

SOME males view sex in certain ways, some view it in other ways.

Exactly, I'm glad someone got my point.

 

[cantata]

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] is "girls aloud?"

*sigh* Can't you people use Wikipedia any more?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_aloud

 

[cantata]

What do you base this on though? Personally, I can't ever recall any of my male friends ever saying they have a problem with their partner masturbating. Maybe it is just the male company that I keep, or maybe your male generalisation conclusion just isn't very accurate, or not very helpful?

Ah, I give up. You win.

 

[stan1980]

Ah, I give up. You win.

Erm, you give up because you think you may have been wrong, or you give up out of frustration? I assume the latter, but either way I'll let it go now

 

[gengwall]

But see, it's the withholding of himself that is the sin. Not the masturbation. I believe it's in corinthians that it states that a man's body does not belong to himself, but to his wife, and that the two are not to go withholding themselves from the other.

Say the husband with holds himself from his wife... for work or whatnot. So the wife "takes care of herself" during these busy times... Did the woman sin or the man?

or if one is just... uumm... energetic? Both have a very healthy relationship... but one just... you know... has more spunk. Would it be better to "release some of the pressure" alone, or force the other into satisfying them and potentially damaging the relationship... making physical love a requirement rather than something to be shared?



EXACTLY. Back when I had a relationship, I would drink on occasion. Rarely, and in moderation... I can't recall a time it was more than one glass... but alcohol isn't inherently bad... it's when alcohol is ABUSED that it becomes a problem.

I also used to play WoW (for a short time, guild wars, City of Heroes, and EQOA were all much better games)... the game itself does not equate to ignoring your partner... it's when you ignore your partner that it becomes a problem. (although, my last relationship was to a point where if I TOUCHED the computer while my girlfriend was home, she was angry at me for ignoring her... so I would go to her and ask if she wanted to do anything, suggest going somewhere, and she never had any ideas, and never wanted to do anything... she just did not want me touching the computer... it offended her. She would rather we sit in the living room not doing anything because then I wouldn't be paying attention to anything else. Of course if she were reading and I interrupted her, she would throw a fit.)

But yea... it's not any of those issues that is the problem... it's the abuse of those issues... the ignoring of your partner... not the issue itself.

I don't disagree. Put plainly, masturbation (like alcohol or WoW...maybe...or money or food or work or even sex) is not inherently sinful. But, it can be a component of, or even a direct cause of sinful behavior and therefore can be quite bad. So, anything that becomes an idol for a person is in and of itself sinful for that person, even if it isn't generically sinful. Any adulterous sexual acts are sinful even though the bible doesn't condemn any sexual acts. Masturbation can be as sinful as adulterous intercourse. But intercourse isn't inherently sinful, just like masturbation isn't.

Let's not forget what Paul told us to (metaphorically) do to anything that causes us to sin.

 

[The Gregorian]

true... we agree that money can be sinful. And that's a very good example...

People do very bad things for money... millions die in wars... usually for money... so money can be very bad. Most of us still need it to live.

Even a particular person who does bad things for it... even if he were to give up those bad things and live a quiet life... it would still be a bad idea to avoid it ENTIRELY... you still need at least enough money to put food on your table... and to have a table to begin with.

Same with masturbation. You need at least enough masturbation to make you forget how no one loves you and your future is a meaningless black hole and you know you'll be stuck in your dead end job forever and never find a woman who won't cheat on you....

So you need at least that much masturbation.

 

[gengwall]

true... we agree that money can be sinful. And that's a very good example...

People do very bad things for money... millions die in wars... usually for money... so money can be very bad. Most of us still need it to live.

Even a particular person who does bad things for it... even if he were to give up those bad things and live a quiet life... it would still be a bad idea to avoid it ENTIRELY... you still need at least enough money to put food on your table... and to have a table to begin with.

Same with masturbation. You need at least enough masturbation to make you forget how no one loves you and your future is a meaningless black hole and you know you'll be stuck in your dead end job forever and never find a woman who won't cheat on you....

So you need at least that much masturbation.

No - all you need is Jesus.

Seriously though, no one NEEDS to touch.

 

[cantata]

double post

 

[cantata]

Seriously though, no one NEEDS to touch.

It is really fun, though.

And trust me - masturbation can save a relationship, too.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

I think masturbation is necessary, Gengwall.