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I would assume we are discussing lust as defined in 2. unbridled sexual desireDefinition of lust (merriam-webster)
noun
1 obsolete
a : pleasure, delight
b : personal inclination : wish
2: usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness
3a : an intense longing : craving
- He was motivated more bylust than by love.
b : enthusiasm, eagerness
- a lust to succeed
- admired his lust for life
There is where we again run afoul of the difference between English and true biblical Greek/Hebrew.What's the difference between "spousal love" and "lust" in your view?
I'm sorry, but I haven't gleaned that definition of lust from the Bible. Do you have Scripture? However, I would agree that solely being focused on oneself is an issue, I would more place that into being an issue of selfishness, not lust.I thought I laid that out( no pun intended) earlier. If one is mainly considering one's own pleasure that is lust and if one is concentrating on one's spouse's pleasure that is love. Both partners will wish to also be pleasured but they ought not be motivated mainly by their own pleasure as that puts the spouse in the position of being a means to an end rather than the loved one whose welfare is of great importance.
I'd be comfortable with a Biblical definition of either.There is where we again run afoul of the difference between English and true biblical Greek/Hebrew.
We cannot/MUST not use english definitions (which can vary all over the place) when we can use the definitions of the original biblical words themselves.
How do you define the difference??
I await the input on Song of Solomon 5.2-5.
She was pleasuring herself and is called "undefiled."
In Matt 5.28 the word translated lust is epithumeo. It is the same word used in the Septuagint for the 10th commandment in Ex 20: Thou shalt not Covet ...I'm sorry, but I haven't gleaned that definition of lust from the Bible. Do you have Scripture?
We are in agreement.In Matt 5.28 the word translated lust is epithumeo. It is the same word used in the Septuagint for the 10th commandment in Ex 20: Thou shalt not Covet ...
Epithumeo is also used by Paul when he refers to coveting.
Interestingly, the word in 2 forms (noun and verb) is used in this verse:
Luke 22:15 KJV
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Or, if we keep the Matt 5 translation: ... with lust I have lusted to eat ...
So epithumeo means simply any STRONG desire. Good or bad.
Where?Seems she was also into incest and undefiled. Go figure.
Why not?? Why do you think God included it in the canon?I'm not inclined to use Song of Solomon as a moral compass for my own behavior.
That is how the church has portrayed it for the last few centuries.Christians today seem to be using it as to mean, sexual arousal... I wonder why?
Say what you want man, but I'd never be comfortable saying that. Holy jeepers, you're talking about the Bible!I'm not inclined to use Song of Solomon as a moral compass for my own behavior.
If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.Did you read the thread? How can masturbation ALWAYS be sinful if you can touch within marriage??
I know, it was more rhetorical. There is an underlying position I believe the church wanted to push at the time, but we'd be going a bit off topic.That is how the church has portrayed it for the last few centuries.
Masturbation is a useless waste of time. Having sexual fantasies without intending to act on them is too close to temptation. Part of the Lord's Prayer is, "...lead us not into temptation" Matthew 6:13.Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.
I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.
What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.
For example, is it a sin to touch:
What do you think CF, what is your opinion?
- When thinking about your spouse?
- To mutually touch?
- When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
- To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)
Cheers,
Tetra
So thought's I have while married are outside of marriage?? What in the world.If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.
Are you? What defines marriage?If you touch while married, you're still using the sexual faculty outside of your marriage.
What would Jesus do? Did he touch?Just so we're clear I'll state my position. My position is that the Bible doesn't definitively state one way or the other that masturbation is a sin. However, if someone is personally convicted about it, stick to your own convictions.
I do have a different take on this topic though that isn't often considered. Many seem to presuppose a very specific and narrow definition of masturbation and / or, it's situational context. They typically imagine single men or women in this situation.
What bothers me is that this is a very narrow view of the topic.
For example, is it a sin to touch:
What do you think CF, what is your opinion?
- When thinking about your spouse?
- To mutually touch?
- When thinking about your spouse who may have long passed away, or left you?
- To look at images of your spouse, or a video that you may have made together with your spouse? (this technically meets the criteria of being pornography by it's current definition)
Cheers,
Tetra
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