Masons

seashale76 · Oct 24, 2017

americanvet said:
Nope. Allow me clarify since you lack the integrity to admit you were wrong.

I never said non-Christians and Christians worship the same God. I pray Christ will show you mercy for bearing false witness against fellow Christians.

What you admitted to is that the God of the organization- of which you are a part- tells even Christ deniers that their faith in 'God' is well founded. Hence- even if everyone in your lodge says they are Christian- the God that Masonry affirms is not Christ but some all-inclusive ecumenical thingie. There is no truth to be found there.

americanvet · Oct 24, 2017

seashale76 said:
What you admitted to is that the God of the organization- of which you are a part- tells even Christ deniers that their faith in 'God' is well founded. Hence- even if everyone in your lodge says they are Christian- the God that Masonry affirms is not Christ but some all-inclusive ecumenical thingie. There is no truth to be found there.

It would be impossible for me to admit anything about "the God of the organization", since Freemasonry does not have a god. Being that this has been pointed out many times you repeating it shows you are not afraid to lie to "be right".

Again I pray Christ will show you mercy for bearing false witness against fellow Christians.

Albion · Oct 24, 2017

seashale76 said:
Why do you so vehemently defend your mystery-religion over the Christian faith?

The point is that all the Masons you meet on Christian Forums are also practicing Christians. Several are ordained Methodist ministers. So unless they are all absolute morons when it comes to the rudiments of the Christian faith, not a single one of them has noticed the nature of Masonry although you who have no personal, direct knowledge or experience of Masonry knows enough to know that it's antithetical to Christianity! Interesting, huh?

My main message here, though, is that this is a topic that could easily be discussed with you, but doing that would probably belong on another forum, not the Baptist home forum. So if you would like to pursue this in the way that it deserves, please do. There are even a few dormant threads still alive that could be re-activated.

Albion · Oct 24, 2017

seashale76 said:
I never knew you were a Mason. However, things that have perplexed me regarding certain things you've posted make sense in light of that information. I think that your Christianity is very influenced by your Masonry.

Well, I became a Mason after I retired, but I've been a Christian since infancy, so that is probably not the answer, my friend.

Your comment is actually quite fascinating to read, considering that you and I have exchanged posts here on CF many times and over the course of years. We usually are on the same side of issues affecting traditional Christian beliefs, but it is only when you learn that I am a Mason that you conclude that my Christian faith has been colored by Masonry. Not yours, of course, but mine. That doesn't really make much sense, if you ask me.

It's actually the other way around. I approached Masonry fully aware of all that anti-Masons say and people who have heard some rumor or other, so I was well armed for finding out if any of those theological 'old wives tales' held up, and I would not have joined if any of them had. And if any had turned out to be evident only to a person who has already joined, I would have resigned.

seashale76 · Oct 24, 2017

Albion said:
Well, I became a Mason after I retired, but I've been a Christian since infancy, so that is probably not the answer, my friend.

Your comment is actually quite fascinating to read, considering that you and I have exchanged posts here on CF many times and over the course of years. We usually are on the same side of issues affecting traditional Christian beliefs, but it is only when you learn that I am a Mason that you conclude that my Christian faith has been colored by Masonry. Not yours, of course, but mine. That doesn't really make much sense, if you ask me.

It's actually the other way around. I approached Masonry fully aware of all that anti-Masons say and people who have heard some rumor or other, so I was well armed for finding out if any of those theological 'old wives tales' held up, and I would not have joined if any of them had. And if any had turned out to be evident only to a person who has already joined, I would have resigned.

We've disagreed quite a bit too, but what I mean is this: You are very quick to recommend any and every kind of church to people based on what they want. The fact that you do this has always disturbed me. Now that I know you're a Mason, that tendency of yours stands explained, as far as I'm concerned. It shows its influence in your life.

Albion · Oct 24, 2017

seashale76 said:
We've disagreed quite a bit too, but what I mean is this: You are very quick to recommend any and every kind of church to people based on what they want.

That's only because of my understanding of the way that the Looking for a Church forum is supposed to work--answer their question based upon the beliefs they explain and do not argue that with them or try to push any particular denomination on the inquirer simply because I think it is right. Sometimes, the inquirer gets the question in the wrong forum, but if that appears to have happened, I answer as if it were a Looking for a Church inquiry. IF I AM ASKED about my own beliefs and how I came by them, you know that I will answer differently and the same goes for posts which are simply about theological controversies.

The fact that you do this has always disturbed me. Now that I know you're a Mason, that tendency of yours stands explained, as far as I'm concerned. It shows its influence in your life.

I'm sorry for you if that's the case, but so be it. You can hardly expect me to conform to a MISTAKEN understanding of the nature of Masonry in order to be treated fairly by another poster, especially one who has no first hand knowledge of Masonry at all.

seashale76 · Oct 24, 2017

I want to know why your baptism into Christ wasn't enough for you that you turned to an organization that proclaimed you to be 'in darkness' and in need of their so-called truths and illumination.

Albion · Oct 24, 2017

Hi. I chose to continue this on the Conspiracy Theories forum where all discussions of Freemasonry have been assigned by the moderators. I tacked it onto the dormant 'Satanism and Freemasonry' thread started by another poster who doesn't know about Masonry but has heard or read tales and spooky claims.

JM · Oct 25, 2017

seashale76 said:
I want to know why your baptism into Christ wasn't enough for you that you turned to an organization that proclaimed you to be 'in darkness' and in need of their so-called truths and illumination.

Hi seashales, don't take offence but your posts have me chuckling. Just like in Parliament and Congress you'll find some theistic beliefs to remind members that God is watching - same goes for Masonry. I can't speak to other Lodges but the Lodge I'm a member of is Christian only, not that we exclude other faiths, just that our members are Christians. One fella was Jewish but converted to Christianity. Our prayer is also Trinitarian, one fella that has been a member for about 50 years ends prayer with "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Before you sling mud over the fence maybe look in your own backyard?

Orthodoxy and Baptism

Gnosticism’s Influence on Early Church Monasticism and Asecticism

Yours in the Lord,

jm

seashale76 · Oct 27, 2017

Chuckle all you want- but to perform any oaths at all- you've gone against what Christ told us.

Matthew 5:33-37.
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Calies · Oct 27, 2017

There is no difference between masons and illuminati, it means God's kingdom on earth. You can join but it is not up to you, only Lord can join you.

Albion · Oct 27, 2017

Please folks, this is the Baptist forum and I don't want anyone to think that this discussion should not be going on here, even though it started with a question or comment from a Baptist member. The discussion continues under the Satanism and Freemasonry thread on the Conspiracy Theories forum where discussions of Masonry are supposed to be. I'll reply to seashale's comment (above) there.

seashale76 · Oct 27, 2017

I'll not be reading it there or participating- because you obviously can't converse without mocking valid concerns about Masonry. The very fact you want to respond to such concerns on a conspiracy forum tells all.

Albion · Oct 27, 2017

I'd recommend that you read it before saying that. Obviously, it's already online and y0u can see if it *mocks valid concerns about Masonry.* I reply on that forum for one reason only--that is the forum to which all discussions of Masonry were assigned by the Moderators. I had nothing to do with that choice.

JM · Oct 27, 2017

Albion said:
I'd recommend that you read it before saying that. Obviously, it's already online and y0u can see if it *mocks valid concerns about Masonry.* I reply on that forum for one reason only--that is the forum to which all discussions of Masonry were assigned by the Moderators. I had nothing to do with that choice.

Exactly, I made the thread here in the Baptist forum to ask Baptists what Baptists believe about Masonry. If I wanted a free for all I would ask in a different forum.

JM · Oct 27, 2017

seashale76 said:
Chuckle all you want- but to perform any oaths at all- you've gone against what Christ told us.

You don't know what you are talking about so I can't take your criticisms seriously.

You misquote Jesus who was commenting on the Jewish practice of swearing an oath only to break it. Christ is saying it is better to not swear an oath if we are not going to keep it.

Quote: Understanding common first-century Jewish practices helps us see what our Savior was getting at in His teaching on oaths and vows. To keep people from breaking the law’s rules regarding our promises (Num. 30:1–2), Jewish teachers and leaders invented a system by which they could determine whether a vow had to be kept. Extrabiblical literature indicates that many rabbis did not consider it a sin to break a vow if it was not made explicitly in the name of God. Oaths made in the name of heaven or even the gold of the temple were not regarded as ultimately binding. As we might expect from sinners, this led to people making oaths by persons or objects other than God to give them an out in case they did not keep their word.

In Matthew 5:33–37, Jesus points out the foolishness of this teaching by reminding His audience of God’s omnipresence. People might think they can get out of their obligations because they did not swear an oath in the name of the Lord, but the Creator is present with those things by which people might swear, and He is the sovereign Creator of all. All things exist by His authority, so to swear an oath at all is to finally swear an oath in His name. A mere change of words does not give one a “get-out-of-oaths-free” card. [/end quote]

During the third and fourth centuries we see creation of the state church, a denomination we know today as, "Eastern Orthodoxy." This same church allowed and even encouraged it's members to swear or pledge oaths to the state and is known today by its ethnic and national ties...so please do not lecture us on oaths and pledges.

Paidiske · Nov 3, 2017

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