Masons

[cwebber]

My friend, I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Mr. Gentry's posts, wherein he endlessly quotes Masonic monitors without apprently the slightest idea of what they're trying to say, is a good example.

Mr. Gentry has repeatedly done this in the past same old arguments that are made of straw and easily blown away in the light of Scripture.

As most Anit-Masons do they quote half truths leaving out the True explaination mostly because they do not know it. They merely joined the Lodge and did not bother to study it's history or the meanings of it's rituals or were and when they we're made.

They fall for the Leo Taxil Hoax because they want to believe it. The fall for all kinds of misconceptions of Freemasonry because as Paul said they like they're ears to be tickled. They do not seek the Truth they see the surface and never look under the water at the vast information underneath.

All you have to do is take a Honest Look at Freemasonry

 

[ZionKnight]

For this purpose was the Son of God made manifest; that He might desroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:8

Even as he is, so are we in the world.
1 John 4:17

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty to the pulling down of strongholds.
2 Corinthians 10:4

For this reason the Sod of God (The second person fo the trinity, the Messiah, the Christ, the Annointed One,) was made manifest (tangible, see-able, know-able): that He might destroy the works (the plans, the results of corrisponding actions, the 'fruits') of the devil, (sin, sickness, bondage, anguish, torment, death,oppression,etc.)
AND, even as He still is, being in Heaven and standing at the right hand of the Father, (acts 7: 55,56) so are we in this world,(annointed 1john 2:27, sons of God Rom 8:16, charged to do battle against the powers of darkness, Eph 6:10-12)
AND the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (fleshly, phisycal, made from this world) but mighty to (for the purpose of) pulling down strongholds (of the powers of darkness.)

 

[ZionKnight]

Surely somone has already presented the following scriptures to you, but I am curious as to what your response will be. But, I won't immediately be able to give you a proper response back. I feel it prudent, partialy for the sake of any interested readers who have been concerned about this subject and happened to browse here, but not really wanting to read through the whole thing. (I know I wouldn't) And, mostly for my own reference as I am beginning to lose track of what has already been covered, to summarize the whole thread, as best as I can. Doing so, may take a few posts and some time. I will not, however, let your response get 'lost in the mix', I will respond to whatever answer you give as soon as I am finished.
I am telling you, rev, am, other masons, this because it is pretty clear now, after being a little more informed by each of you and also o.f.f., that I am about 98% leaning toward anti-mason (leaving the two precent for my own insecurities). Consequently, I will, no doubt, word it with such a stand point in mind. I will try to be as objective as I can, but I am a firm believer in 'the only thing truly objective it the object itself'. We are always influenced by our personal beliefs, in every word we speak (or type)and every action we take. That fact does not change unless some significant event happens that causes us to forsake or 'die' to our former system of belief, and be transformed into a 'new creature', and raised back up to live as a 'new man'. < that sounds fammiliar, it sounds like baptism, (yes I'm being facetious). But, I believe that the water baptism is only SYMBOLIC.....hee hee...of what is happening or has happened already in the spirit realm. Whoo! I about to get a little pentacostal again, .. If you could see me dance! (then you would know why I am sitting behind a computer, )

So, if you want, you can do the same in your own words, or you could just wait, and present a rebuttal after I have posted it. I am stating my position so that, any reader can bear that in mind when they read my summary. I don't want to lead anyone under false pretenses.

ok, I took too long on this post, (my computer seems to dissconnect sometimes if I take too long.) so I will post the scriptures in another.

 

[ZionKnight]

It turns out that my computer DID dissconnect not long after I made my last post. I guess that I will have to cut even these scripture sections into...well, sections.

Oh well, here goes:

First section: Mark 7:6-13, After being confronted by the 'boo-birds' about His disciples not washing their hands before eating, Jesus quoted Isaiah 29:13,14. In His quoting, He said: In vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Speaking of such people He said:they honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:7-9 also gives this account.

The connection that I make between this and our subject is in the adherence to the commandments and doctrines of men that bring the Word of God to no effect.

How do Masons do that? Next post.

 

[ZionKnight]

1John 2:22,23 Whoever denies the Son of God, does not have the Father.< whether you consider that a name or a generic, it does not change the scripture for christians. But, whoever aknowledges the Son, Jesus, the same has the Father also.

Dan 7:9-14 Daniel speaks of The Ancient Of Days, another name or generic, depending on who you are. (T.A.O.D. ?) He then, speaks of One like unto the Son of man, comming with the clouds of Heaven, to the Ancient Of Days. The Son, Jesus, was then given domminion, glory, and a kingdom of all nations over whom He was given everlasting domminion. Verse 18 then says that the saints of the Most High, (that's us!) shall take the kingdom and posses the kingdom (presumably for Him, and under His domminion, but ut doesn't say that here,)

John 1:1,2 Speaks of the Word being with God and being God, even from the beginning. And goes on to say that nothing was made without Him, (Jesus).


John 14: 21-25 speaks of how both the Father and the Son come to make their abode in the believer. And, that if anyone does not keep the sayings of Jesus, they are also not keeping the Father's

Acts 7:55-59 Speaks of Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father.

1John 5:7 Tells us that the trinity cannot be separated.

1John 16-21 Says that we are of God and the whole world (world system) lieth in wickedness. And, we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we may know Him that is true, even that Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Jesus cannot be separrated from the Godhead, He cannot be put aside for the sake of ambiguity. The mansons genric term for God, whoever He is, the Great Architect Of The Universe, (G.A.O.T.U.) the Almighty Father of Creation, does not allow room for Jesus. He has to take a seat with all the other gods as being emcompassed in the term.

 

[ZionKnight]

Psalms chapter 1, 6:8, 26:4, 26:5
Proverbs 1:10-15, 9:6, 14:17, 22:24
Mathew 18:17
Romans 16:17
2John 9-11
1Timothy 6:3-5
2Thesalonians 3:6, 14,15
2Corinthians 6:14
1Cor 5:9-11
2Timothy 3:1-5


These are a few scriptures listing all sorts of persons that we are not supposed to fellowship with. I have underlined the ones that pertain best to the Masons. Being that it welcomes all monotheistic religions, there are bond to be such like at least some of these.

 

[Rev Wayne]

These are a few scriptures listing all sorts of persons that we are not supposed to fellowship with. I have underlined the ones that pertain best to the Masons.

I have done the same. And I underlined the one that best applies to all Christians, be they Masons or not:

"Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares".
(Hebrews 13:1-2)

 

[amadeus72]

I have underlined the ones that pertain best to the Masons. Being that it welcomes all monotheistic religions, there are bond to be such like at least some of these.

But that is precisely the point. Freemasonry does not "welcome all monotheistic religions"; it welcomes people. That's a pretty big difference.

Freemasonry, as a fraternal organization, doesn't care in the least whether you're Baptist, Episcopalian, or Jewish, nor does it care if you tend to vote Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, or Socialist. All of that stuff is your own business, not that of any fraternity or club you happen to be a member of.

 

[Rev Wayne]

For this reason the Sod of God (The second person fo the trinity, the Messiah, the Christ, the Annointed One,) was made manifest (tangible, see-able, know-able): that He might destroy the works (the plans, the results of corrisponding actions, the 'fruits') of the devil, (sin, sickness, bondage, anguish, torment, death,oppression,etc.)
AND, even as He still is, being in Heaven and standing at the right hand of the Father, (acts 7: 55,56) so are we in this world,(annointed 1john 2:27, sons of God Rom 8:16, charged to do battle against the powers of darkness, Eph 6:10-12)
AND the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (fleshly, phisycal, made from this world) but mighty to (for the purpose of) pulling down strongholds (of the powers of darkness.)

Too bad it didn't post this way originally. We could have saved a lot of ink, because posting in this manner is very different from what you did originally. Had it posted this way, I might not have caught the misapplication of 1 John 4:17, because:

(1) There are line breaks in between
(2) There are added words of explanation

As I already said earlier, the content was not the problem. It was the misuse of one verse out of context to string the others together. And in fact, 1 John 4:17 is still, imo, misapplied even as you currently use it, since it specifically says we are "as He is in this world" in reference to loving others, not in reference to spiritual warfare.

But somehow you get the idea that for me to say that is to say that we are not to be engaged in spiritual warfare. That is ridiculous, of course I affirm that we engage in spiritual warfare. But there are far easier ways to assert that than to apply 1 John 4:17 out of context.

Or maybe you hadn't noticed that I haven't contested the ones you quoted properly in that regard?

Let me make this easier for you to grasp: if you had used only verses that came from a context speaking of spiritual warfare, of which 1 John 4:17 certainly is not one, you would have been true to the scriptures in their context. But what you did reminds me of the example a professor gave us in seminary of what happens with misapplied scriptures:

"Judas went out and hanged himself.................go thou and do likewise....................and that thou doest, do quickly!"

 

[Rev Wayne]

But that is precisely the point. Freemasonry does not "welcome all monotheistic religions"; it welcomes people. That's a pretty big difference.

Freemasonry, as a fraternal organization, doesn't care in the least whether you're Baptist, Episcopalian, or Jewish, nor does it care if you tend to vote Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, or Socialist. All of that stuff is your own business, not that of any fraternity or club you happen to be a member of.

BINGO!

Somebody give this man a medal.

 

[Rev Wayne]

First section: Mark 7:6-13, After being confronted by the 'boo-birds' about His disciples not washing their hands before eating, Jesus quoted Isaiah 29:13,14. In His quoting, He said: In vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Speaking of such people He said:they honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:7-9 also gives this account.

The connection that I make between this and our subject is in the adherence to the commandments and doctrines of men that bring the Word of God to no effect.

How do Masons do that?

Well, since Masons don't come together as a worship group, I am less concerned with how Masons do that as I am about how Christians do that. Right now, we're dealing with that in the visioning team at my church, trying with every ounce of strength we have, to somehow figure out how to overcome the common problem faced by so many churches: how do we get the 80-90% of attenders who are pew-sitters to join the other 10-20% who are carrying the load?

And we have decided it mainly comes down to the very point you have just made. I have no doubt they are good Christians, they just need something that will spur their hearts to see the need for an active faith. I myself found my own spur, in the emphasis on faith in action found in the lodge. But I can't really say the lodge would provide the same complement to their faith that it has, by God's guidance, to my own faith. I can only teach and preach and encourage, and most of all pray for the Spirit of God to touch their hearts.

But "commandments of men?" I disagree, because the main things Masonry teaches in the way of service to mankind are not only teachings of Christianity, they are its heart:

"Let brotherly love continue." (Hebrews 13:1)

"Do unto others as you would have them to do unto you." (The GOLDEN Rule)

"Do good unto all men, but especially unto those of the household of faith." (Galatians 6:10)

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

But we've already pointed out numerous times just how strongly connected the principles of Masonry are to the Bible.

So, if you want, you can do the same in your own words, or you could just wait, and present a rebuttal after I have posted it.

I think I'll stick with printing the rebuttal to the individual points as they come. It fits in better with the limited time I can allot for each session at the KB.

 

[Rev Wayne]

1John 16-21 Says that we are of God and the whole world (world system) lieth in wickedness. And, we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we may know Him that is true, even that Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

I find this strange, that you would quote all the references you do, and of all you posted, make these the two points of emphasis.

(1) True God: Well, as I've stated, I worship the Triune God of Trinitarian Christian faith, I affirm every point in the Nicene Creed, I worship Jesus Christ the living Son of God, who is, and was, and is to come, the Lord of glory sitting at the right hand of the Father, who is my risen Lord and Shepherd and my very personal Savior.

(2) Keep yourselves from idols: I haven't seen the first "idol" in the lodge. We have the Bible prominently displayed in the center of the room. We have a head of the lodge who by some interpretations symbolically represents Christ, and we do not walk at any time between the Master of the lodge and the Holy Bible. No matter how far around it may be, we walk around the Bible to avoid crossing that direct line between the Master and the Word, a symbolic practice of great significance in itself.

 

[O.F.F.]

(1) True God: Well, as I've stated, I worship the Triune God of Trinitarian Christian faith, I affirm every point in the Nicene Creed, I worship Jesus Christ the living Son of God, who is, and was, and is to come, the Lord of glory sitting at the right hand of the Father, who is my risen Lord and Shepherd and my very personal Savior.

If this were true you would not stand in fraternal relations with believers of false gods and come here proclaiming that all Masons worship the same God (G.A.O.T.U.). Here is what Jesus says about those like you:

Matthew 15:7-9

You pretenders (hypocrites)! Admirably and truly did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:

These people draw near Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far away from Me.

Uselessly do they worship Me, for they teach as doctrines the commands of men.

Then you speak of your spiritual blindness:

(2) Keep yourselves from idols: I haven't seen the first "idol" in the lodge.

The letter G to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial and sacred name of God (singular), before whom all Masons (regardless of their religious persuasion), from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful master who resides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow. (emphasis added)

- Pages 18 & 19, Fellow Craft Degree, State of Nevada Ritual, Circa 1986

If you do not see the idolatry in this, than you are truly spiritually blind.

We have the Bible prominently displayed in the center of the room. We have a head of the lodge who by some interpretations symbolically represents Christ, and we do not walk at any time between the Master of the lodge and the Holy Bible. No matter how far around it may be, we walk around the Bible to avoid crossing that direct line between the Master and the Word, a symbolic practice of great significance in itself.

Sounds a lot like a RELIGION to me, and I am sure it does to others too. And, since it is made up of men from the various religions of the world, it is a mockery of Christ and His Church. Pretty pathetic indeed.

 

[Ratdog]

You can't be a Mason unless you believe in God, however their doctrine is not Christian focused by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually very similiar to Islamic Sufism on it's deepest levels. (My grandfather is a 33 degree Mason. I've read his books)

 

[Rev Wayne]

If this were true you would not stand in fraternal relations with believers of false gods and come here proclaiming that all Masons worship the same God

Where have you seen me proclaim anything about who "all Masons" worship? That is not the truth, it is a lie, and unless you cite page number and post number and the direct quote, I will thank you kindly not to print untruths about anything I post.

For the record, I have proclaimed nothing here about "who all Masons worship" (as if I even could!). I have stated only the matter of whom I worship, the Triune God, Father and Son, and His Son the living and risen Lord Jesus Christ.

If you do not see the idolatry in this, than you are truly spiritually blind.

Your understanding of what you just read into what you read, is once again foolishness, which I will demonstrate.

The letter G to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial and sacred name of God (singular), before whom all Masons (regardless of their religious persuasion), from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful master who resides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow. (emphasis added)

- Pages 18 & 19, Fellow Craft Degree, State of Nevada Ritual, Circa 1986

All pronouns have noun antecedents, and you just chose the wrong one, which is understandable given the length of the statement and the number of nouns that preceded the "before whom."

The statement says It is the initial and sacred name of God and immediately follows it with the comma and "before whom." Since prounouns usually modify the noun they most closely follow, that would be God. So the bowing spoken of is not a "bowing to the letter G" as you have so inanely suggested in the past. If that was your intention this time, then please note the correction of your error.

But since you did not directly state that (or anything else for that matter) as what you intended by your proclamation of "idolatry," then perhaps your intention was different? Since you add the words (regardless of their religious persuasion), then I must assume your problem is with the concept of bowing to God in the presence of others to whom the letter "G" may signify something other than the Triune God?

So apparently you do not believe the Triune God is the God of all living, because the same thing is said of Him, "To me every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess," which is found in both Isaiah and Philippians. And it proclaims this to be true of all things in heaven, in earth, and under the earth. Who does that not include? Will you then refuse to bow simply because you don't like the other groups God has asked you to bow with? Where is that gonna get you?

Besides, it doesn't even say anything about bowing to Him in the lodge either. It just says that everyone from the lowest to the highest should bow before God Almighty. Are you trying to tell us it is not true, even though God proclaims Himself the God of all living?

Or perhaps your problem is simply with the fact that they are all in one room praying? Then how do you reconcile your objection with:

"And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves." (Mark 11:17)

Sounds a lot like a RELIGION to me, and I am sure it does to others too.

Its principles are from the Holy Bible, the Holy Bible resides on the altar in the center of the Lodge, the only Holy Book whose words are ever quoted from in Lodge is the Holy Bible, the Holy Bible is the only Holy Book that has ever been or ever shall be referred to in Masonry as the "Great Light of Masonry," the only God whose name directly appears anywhere in ritual is the God of Judaeo-Christian origin.

So even if Masonry truly were a religion (which it is not), then which one do you suppose it would have to be?

You don't even have to answer that, it is patently absurd to suggest any other origin for Masonry than the Holy Bible. I will make a stronger case for this shortly, from the objections made by antimasons.

 

[Rev Wayne]

You can't be a Mason unless you believe in God, however their doctrine is not Christian focused by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually very similiar to Islamic Sufism on it's deepest levels. (My grandfather is a 33 degree Mason. I've read his books)

Maybe you'd like to share with us exactly which books you refer to, so we can check your claims?

 

[O.F.F.]

I must assume your problem is with the concept of bowing to God in the presence of others to whom the letter "G" may signify something other than the Triune God?

Absolutely! Since the Muslim Mason can view the letter "G" as Allah, and the Hindu Mason can view the "G" as Brahman, and the Buddhist Mason can view the "G" as Buddha, and the Satanic Mason can view the "G" as Lucifer, and so on and so forth by any Mason's concept of deity; yes I do have a problem with this and so should any other Christian, especially one who claims to be a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You not only bow before an image that represents all gods under the sun, you kneel before it at the common altar of Freemasonry. To kneel before an image and in agreement that it is representative of both the Triune God of the Bible and all false gods of the world is not only idolatry, it is blasphemy.

Some forms of Hinduism claim to be monotheistic. They hold that the various gods worshiped by all the various religions of the world are simply Brahman known by a different name. They hold that Brahman encompasses Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna, (all Hindu gods) Allah of Islam, Ahura Mazda of the Zoroastrians and Jesus of the Bible.

Suppose you went into a Hindu temple and joined the Hindus in their corporate prayer to Brahman, yet at the end of the prayer you audibly uttered "in Jesus name." Assuming that the Hindus would not be offended, would the True and Living God be willing to accept prayers offered to a composite god such as Brahman?

How would this Hindu opportunity to pray corporately to Brahman be any different than the Masonic opportunity to pray to G.A.O.T.U. you have embraced?

So apparently you do not believe the Triune God is the God of all living, because the same thing is said of Him, "To me every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess," which is found in both Isaiah and Philippians.

You know perfectly well that this verse refers to when Jesus Christ returns and it will be made clear to all nations that He has always been the One True God, and all believers in false gods and those like you who have compromised the truth of who He is will be put to shame.

Or perhaps your problem is simply with the fact that they are all in one room praying? Then how do you reconcile your objection with:

"And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer?

So you don't want us to believe Freemasonry is a RELIGION, but you want us to believe the Lodge is the house of God (a Church). Your apostasy gets more clear every time you post a message.

 

[cwebber]

Absolutely! Since the Muslim Mason can view the letter "G" as Allah, and the Hindu Mason can view the "G" as Brahman, and the Buddhist Mason can view the "G" as Buddha, and the Satanic Mason can view the "G" as Lucifer, and so on and so forth by any Mason's concept of deity; yes I do have a problem with this and so should any other Christian, especially one who claims to be a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You problem is Mike that you do not know the history of Freemasonry. The only God mentioned is Jehovah in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity. But the Muslim, hindu or buddhist does not have to believe in Jehovah to join as you are thought in the first degree "You are asked to believe in a Supreme Being to whom you hold yourself accountable" Because freemasonry is has members of differing beliefs you are not asked specificly whom you believe that that you believe you are accountable to a Supreme Being.

And I guess under your above post we are not to joion the Army, Navy or any other armed forces as all take a Pledge to the Flag of the United States of America One Nation Under GOD. but according to your post we have just joined with no believes against christ by doing so.

You not only bow before an image that represents all gods under the sun,

What image there is only One God represented that being Jehovah, But each individual Mason has his own beliefs we do not all believe in the same God. You should have learned that if you were paying attention in the first degree.

you kneel before it at the common altar of Freemasonry. To kneel before an image and in agreement that it is representative of both the Triune God of the Bible and all false gods of the world is not only idolatry, it is blasphemy.

I will remember this when I read in the Bible where Jesus went to the Temple and prayed and taught even as unbelieves prayed and taught all around him.

Good thing my Jesus is the one of the bible and not the One you seem to imply. One who could worship the One True God in the midst of unbelievers but in you eyes even Jesus would be a sinner based on your post.

Suppose you went into a Hindu temple and joined the Hindus in their corporate prayer to Brahman, yet at the end of the prayer you audibly uttered "in Jesus name." Assuming that the Hindus would not be offended, would the True and Living God be willing to accept prayers offered to a composite god such as Brahman?

Your post does not make sense. You first say you are praying to brahman than end your prayer "in Jesus name" if you are praying to brahman you are not praying to Jesus. No God would not honor these prayers because you are not praying to Jesus as you stated you are not praying to Jesus.

Now if someone was there praying to Jesus during the cooperate prayer than Jesus would hear their prayer. Just as God heard Daniels prayers while everyone else was praying to the King of Babylon. God even shut the mouth of the Lions.

How would this Hindu opportunity to pray corporately to Brahman be any different than the Masonic opportunity to pray to G.A.O.T.U. you have embraced?

It differs because Masons to not come together to Worship. When they pray as at a Ball Game they pray to whom individual Mason believes in.

So you don't want us to believe Freemasonry is a RELIGION, but you want us to believe the Lodge is the house of God (a Church).

Freemasonry is not a religion, The Lodge is not a Church. A building is not a Church. Church is the gathering of Two or more in the name of Christ. Can this happen in the Lodge? Yes if two or more Christians are there just as it can happen at a Coorperation.

Your apostasy gets more clear every time you post a message.

And your willful Blindness to the Truth is becoming more and more clearer.

 

[Rev Wayne]

So you don't want us to believe Freemasonry is a RELIGION, but you want us to believe the Lodge is the house of God (a Church).

You missed my highlight.

My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer

My emphasis was on the "of all nations." I wasn't suggesting anything about the house of God at all, I was making a statement about God. And apparently God doesn't have any problem with everybody in the world calling the same place the house of prayer. Which also means He apparently doesn't have any problem with all of them praying to Him. And presume though you may, you do not know the state of anyone's heart before God. Nor do I, but the difference is, at least I recognize that I don't.

Have you never bowed your head when prayer was offered in any gathering of people from a variety of walks of life? Like a school graduation? Boy Scouts? Ballgame?
Your past silence when asked the question is a tacit admission that you have done so. Ever happen to think that in so doing, you are giving silent consent to everyone praying that the practice is okay with you? And if it is okay there, why do you criticize Christian lodge members who are doing no different than you yourself have done? Isn't there a name for that, which you happen to be fond of using to accuse?

But since you don't wish to acknowledge anything about that verse, let's try one from the OT. From Isaiah, the same chapter where the knee-bowing and oath-taking derived. In the first couple of verses God is speaking of Cyrus and calls him "my anointed." How about them apples?? A Gentile leader who is called God's anointed! Certainly God used other Gentiles for various purposes, but He never called them anointed, that is a whole nother plate of biscuits. And what does God say about one such as this? "Touch not mine anointed." It's a special description of one of the chosen. Of course, you'll probably try to rationalize that one away too. So while you're trying to rationalize that one, don't forget v. 13 of the same chapter, again about Cyrus, "I have raised him up in righteousness."

But if you really must raise a ruckus about these, do so with God, I already know what they say, and I have no problem with letting God be God and if He wants to have relationship with those who are not Christians, who am I to argue with Him?

Naaman sought God for healing. He was not one of the Israelites, the people of God. Why did God answer his prayer and heal him?

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

You know perfectly well that this verse refers to when Jesus Christ returns and it will be made clear to all nations that He has always been the One True God, and all believers in false gods and those like you who have compromised the truth of who He is will be put to shame.

Where do you get such misinformation? From Keil and Delitschz, premier Hebrew scholars, on Isaiah 45:23:

A word has gone forth from this mouth of righteousness; and after it has once gone forth, it does not return without accomplishing its object (Isa 55:11). What follows is not so much a promising prediction (that every knee will bend to me), as a definitive declaration of will (that it shall or must bend to me).

And on v. 24-25:

This bending of the knee, this confession as an oath of homage, will be no forced one. V. 24. "Only in Jehovah, do men say of me, is fulness of righteousness and strength; they come to Him, and all that were incensed against Him are put to shame."

Absolutely! Since the Muslim Mason can view the letter "G" as Allah, and the Hindu Mason can view the "G" as Brahman, and the Buddhist Mason can view the "G" as Buddha, and the Satanic Mason can view the "G" as Lucifer, and so on and so forth by any Mason's concept of deity; yes I do have a problem with this and so should any other Christian, especially one who claims to be a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Since they can all do this, then apparently Masonry knows what it's talking about when it describes it as only a symbol. And symbols have meaning only as they are given meaning by the individual's interpretation. And what one individual's interpretation is, does not affect what another person's interpretation is. But, as promised, I will show why accusations like this one are an absurdity.
You forget that the cross is a symbol too. It was used by ancient Egyptians long before it ever became a Christian symbol. Will you surrender all use of the cross as a Christian symbol, then? Will you cease from all further mention of it, to avoid the pagan interpretations?

You not only bow before an image that represents all gods under the sun, you kneel before it at the common altar of Freemasonry.

Read my lips, Michael: Nobody is kneeling before any letter G. The reference to kneeling is a reference that says we ALL should kneel before God. And apparently God agrees, and says that all should kneel before Him, as already noted in Isaiah.

Suppose you went into a Hindu temple and joined the Hindus in their corporate prayer to Brahman, yet at the end of the prayer you audibly uttered "in Jesus name." Assuming that the Hindus would not be offended, would the True and Living God be willing to accept prayers offered to a composite god such as Brahman?

I'm not going to any Hindu temple.

How would this Hindu opportunity to pray corporately to Brahman be any different than the Masonic opportunity to pray to G.A.O.T.U. you have embraced?

(1) It's just what you said, "corporately." That may or may not be true of the prayer in lodge. In my lodge it just happens to be corporate, because all the members are professing Christians.
(2) In the lodge, the emphasis is on the individual, and the individual is not challenged or questioned on his own religion, so prayer is not in a "corporate" sense, but instead is more like the prayers I mentioned above, in multi-faith settings. The individual prays in his heart to whomever he chooses.

the Satanic Mason

An oxymoron, there is no such thing. If he says he is such, then he is a liar. Masons profess belief in one Supreme Being who is the Creator of all things. Satan hasn't created anything but trouble, and is a liar from the beginning, no big surprise to find his followers would be too.

So you don't want us to believe Freemasonry is a RELIGION

You may believe what you wish, I've said nothing about what I wish you to believe. I have simply stated the facts, Freemasonry is not a religion.
You seem to miss a lot in my posts:

Its principles are from the Holy Bible, the Holy Bible resides on the altar in the center of the Lodge, the only Holy Book whose words are ever quoted from in Lodge is the Holy Bible, the Holy Bible is the only Holy Book that has ever been or ever shall be referred to in Masonry as the "Great Light of Masonry," the only God whose name directly appears anywhere in ritual is the God of Judaeo-Christian origin.

So even if Masonry truly were a religion (which it is not), then which one do you suppose it would have to be?

 

[O.F.F.]

(1) It's just what you said, "corporately." That may or may not be true of the prayer in lodge. In my lodge it just happens to be corporate, because all the members are professing Christians.

(2) In the lodge, the emphasis is on the individual, and the individual is not challenged or questioned on his own religion, so prayer is not in a "corporate" sense, but instead is more like the prayers I mentioned above, in multi-faith settings. The individual prays in his heart to whomever he chooses.

You contradict yourself in #2 from what you state in #1. Either prayer in the Lodge is corporate or it is not. Make up your Masonic mind, you can't have it both ways. Besides, it really doesn't matter what you think, according to one of the authorities of Freemasonry, which you certainly are NOT:

Specifically, two subjects are prohibited in Lodge discussion: partisan politics and sectarian religion.

Sectarian religion does not refer to Christian denominations; it refers to Christianity the same as any other of the world's several religions. That means that Christian sermons should not be delivered at Lodge gatherings, nor should Christian prayers be offered, nor Christian symbols displayed.

The prohibition on discussions of religious subjects in Masonic meetings applies to Masons even if every member of the Lodge is of the same religious belief. (emphasis added)

Mentor's Manual, 1975, pp. 15-16, Grand Lodge of Indiana

Although your Lodge, or Grand Lodge for that matter, may violate this rule, it is the universal Masonic positon nontheless. Why is this so important?

Because unlike you, or maybe even your Grand Lodge, this Grand Lodge knows that Freemasonry is universal in its tenets and teachings and to allow a Christian emphasis in lecture, prayer or symbolism in the Lodge would be totally unMasonic.

Official documents from a Grand Lodge in America, where as you claim most Masons are professing "Christians" indicate rather clearly the Masonic position on the matter -- rendering your personal opinion on it null and void. The ONLY place the Masonic Lodge allows YOU or any other Mason's interpretation of Freemasonry is in YOUR minds, NOT in the Lodge. Freemasonry determines these rules NOT Masonic writers like William Hutchinson, nor Masonic pastors like Wayne Major.

"the Satanic Mason" An oxymoron, there is no such thing.

It most certainly is; according to the testimony of an Ex-Mason for Jesus. Bill Schnoebelen is a recognized authority on alternative religions and the occult, and spent sixteen years as a teacher of witchcraft, spiritism and ceremonial magick. His spiritual search also included seven years in the Church of Satan as a practicing Freemason; prior to coming to know the Lord and becoming an Ex-Mason for Jesus.

Masons profess belief in one Supreme Being

Correct, and as you already know, nothing more will be asked of a candidate concerning his belief in "a" Supreme Being. He will NOT be asked if he is a Christian, or what church he attends, nor what denomination he belongs to, or even who or what he considers to be "the" Supreme Being.

That's why polytheists such as Hindus and Mormons can become Masons, because as mentioned in my earlier post, ultimately Hindus believe that Brahman reigns supreme among the many gods they believe in, and although Mormons teach that they can become gods themselves, the god of the Book of Mormon reigns Supreme in their belief system.

So, if it can work for them, it can and most certainly did work for those like Bill Schnoebelen. By definition as it relates to deity, according to Masonic doctrine, all that is required for Masonic membership is belief in "a" Supreme Being. Therefore, it stand to reason that if a candidate believes that Satan is God, then he is qualified to join. Bill is not the only one who made it in, there are countless others too; although they may not openly or readily admit it. But, like Freemasonry says, they don't have to.

The following link are some examples: Freemasonry: The Devil's Playground