Mary

[GenemZ]

God BECAME MAN. If you do not believe this, you are not a Christian.

But, man did not become God. That's where some here get their wires crossed.

Philippians 2:5-8 niv
"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!"


If you walked into a room filled with children? And, agreed not to use any more strength than a child has. That would be possible. But, what if a child walked into a room of adults? Would the reverse be possible? No. God could become as a man, and be in total identification with a man. But, the opposite was not possible for a man with God. In that sense, God was one with Christ before he went to the Cross. After he finished dying in our place, the issues were reversed in Heaven. Now, the humanity of Christ sits, and his Deity does all the work. His humanity was told to sit until his Deity makes all his enemies into a footstool. (Hebrews 1:13).

God lowered himself and became as a man in Christ. He agreed to be no stronger than a man. That the humanity of Christ was to depend on the Father just like a believer is to depend on the Father. That when tempted, he would only depend on his own strength as a man, and prayers to the Father, to deliver him. That at no time was he to depend on his own power of Deity to defend or provide for himself.

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

I agree with the Word. You? You call me a heretic for agreeing with the Word.

Knowing I am saved, GeneZ

 

[Oblio]

How does God die?

I answered that with a Scripture affirmation, and an explanation in the last page (or maybe two)

 

[InnerPhyre]

From the moment of His conception, Jesus was God. There was never a time that Jesus was not God, and there will never be a time when Jesus is not God. Yes, to say otherwise is heresy. God have mercy on our twisted generation.

 

[Axion]

Hey, I was brought up a Jew. Jews could put up a few web pages covering the abuses of the Inquisitions, big time. Why? Because your church persecuted all who disagreed with them. It wanted to become the head of a one world government/religion, if it could.

I know you are only continuously bringing up the subject of inquisitions in order to divert this thread off its topic - the necessity of holding to the Doctrine of Mary Mother of God in order to safeguard the Christian teaching of the incarnation of Christ.

However I cannot let this pass. Jews who remained in their Jewish Faith were never subject to the Spanish or any other Inquisition. The main inquisition was the Spanish Inquisition, run by the Spanish State - and whose activities have been massively exaggerated for black propaganda purposes. The Inquisition had no authority over anyone but Christians. Ex-Jews who had converted to Catholicism were subject to the Spanish Inquisition in the 16th Century. However there was no Church persecution of Jews such as that promoted by the founder of Protestantism.

I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them...

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb...

Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let them stay at home

I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. ... If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them." Martin Luther.

 

[Oblio]

I agree with the Word. You? You call me a heretic for agreeing with the Word.

More accurately you agree with your personal view of Scripture, which if it denies that Christ as 100% man and 100% God died on the Cross and decended into hades, is rife with heresy. That does not make you a heretic but simply one who subscribes to a heresy.

 

[deu58]

Hello axion

From the attitude of some of the "protestants" in this thread, who are willing to align themselves with sites promoting witchcraft and who will throw out both the incarnation of Jesus and the redemption in their anxiety to attack Mary, the Catholic Church is very much needed. The scriptures say:

It is sad to say that there are brethren amongst us who are supporting the new age religions, But I have not seen any evidence of that here yet but I have not read every post on this thread either,

Neither have I seen anyone attacking the incarnation or trying to throw out Mary, What I have seen is disagreement on these issues, One side posting mostly scriptures and the other posting mostly personal opinions,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[GenemZ]

From the attitude of some of the "protestants" in this thread, who are willing to align themselves with sites promoting witchcraft and who will throw out both the incarnation of Jesus and the redemption in their anxiety to attack Mary, the Catholic Church is very much needed. The scriptures say:

2Jo 1:7 -
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

That's only one kind of antichrist....

Here's another.

Matthew 7:21-23 niv
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "

Imagine that? Doing all those works in Jesus name? And never were saved to begin with?

When Jesus said, "I never knew you." ... He was saying that at no time were they ever saved.

Yet? Amazing all those works they did in Jesus name! Isn't it?


Goes to just show you. We can never tell by works done in Jesus name, always who is saved.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[Oblio]

One side posting mostly scriptures and the other posting mostly personal opinions,

One side posting mostly personal opinion on scriptures and the other posting mostly personal opinions,

Scripture without wisdom and discernment is simply ink on paper (or pixels on phosphor)

 

[sawdust]

I answered that with a Scripture affirmation, and an explanation in the last page (or maybe two)

Well I've read most of the posts in this thread and I don't recall seeing it.
Would you mind finding which post number you are referring to please?

peace

 

[GenemZ]

More accurately you agree with your personal view of Scripture, which if it denies that Christ as 100% man and 100% God died on the Cross and decended into hades, is rife with heresy. That does not make you a heretic but simply one who subscribes to a heresy.

Can you please get that in writing, and notorized for me? Three copies?


GeneZ

 

[Oblio]

Well I've read most of the posts in this thread and I don't recall seeing it.
Would you mind finding which post number you are referring to please?

peace

I think it was #216

Also, you might enjoy and find answers here, On the Incarnation - Athanasius especially the chapter on the Death of Christ. Note: The website is even Protestant (Calvinist IIRC). When was the last time you saw an Orthodox Christian agreeing with something on a Calvinist site

 

[deu58]

Hello innerphyre

From the moment of His conception, Jesus was God. There was never a time that Jesus was not God, and there will never be a time when Jesus is not God. Yes, to say otherwise is heresy. God have mercy on our twisted generation.

And was he flesh before his conception? God is not flesh.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Flesh has a beginning, God does not, Flesh has an end, God does not, All flesh has and will die,

1pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

God can not die, That does not mean that God the spirit was not on the Cross and did not suffer at Calvary,

Mr 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

The flesh of Jesus died on the cross, The spirit of Jesus which is the spirit of God survived and departed the dead flesh,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[InnerPhyre]

No, God was not flesh before the incarnation, but He BECAME flesh. He didn't inhabit flesh. He became it.

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us." John 1:14

 

[Axion]

Now, the humanity of Christ sits, and his Deity does all the work. His humanity was told to sit until his Deity makes all his enemies into a footstool.

You're still trying to divide Jesus into two parts. What christianity teaches is that Jesus has two natures, but that they are joined permanently in ONE personhood. There is only ONE Jesus. One consciousness, one person. There is no "dormant humanity", no just Jesus's humanity dying on the cross. Jesus the person, fully man and fully God, died for our sins.

I agree with the Word. You? You call me a heretic for agreeing with the Word.

You are not agreeing with scripture, you are selecting certain bits of scripture in isolation, and then wrongly interpreting them.

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped[/b],
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!"

You see what you have missed in this passage is that God the Son really died on the cross.

 

[deu58]

Hi Innerphre

No, God was not flesh before the incarnation, but He BECAME flesh. He didn't inhabit flesh. He became it.

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us." John 1:14

Yes this is true, And that flesh died on the cross, When you die does your spirit die with you? Or does it return to God the Father?

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[InnerPhyre]

Hi Innerphre



Yes this is true, And that flesh died on the cross, When you die does your spirit die with you? Or does it return to God the Father?

yours in Christ
deu 58

My spirit does not die because Jesus destroyed death, but in order to do that He had to first descend to Sheol. Are you denying that Jesus descended to the dead?

 

[Oblio]

The flesh of Jesus died on the cross, The spirit of Jesus which is the spirit of God survived and departed the dead flesh

And where did His spirit go when only His flesh died ? When were they rejoined ?
You seem to be equating His flesh with His humanity and his spirit with God, is this true ? If so, where does Scripture state this ?

All of Jesus was God, to say that his body was human and His spirit was Divine, with the two separate is another heresy.

 

[deu58]

Hello Axion

You see what you have missed in this passage is that God the Son really died on the cross.

We are all going to really die one day until our lord returns to this earth, Does that mean that is the end of us? do you believe in the soul sleep doctrine????? That the spirit dies with the flesh and remains asleep in the grave until the resurrection?

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hi Innerphyre

My spirit does not die because Jesus destroyed death, but in order to do that He had to first descend to Sheol. Are you denying that Jesus descended to the dead?

If you believe the spirits of men do not die then how do you come to the conclusion that God who is a spirit, can die???

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Oblio]

Hello Axion


We are all going to really die one day until our lord returns to this earth, Does that mean that is the end of us? do you believe in the soul sleep doctrine????? That the spirit dies with the flesh and remains asleep in the grave until the resurrection?

yours in Christ
deu 58

You forgot about Christ's Great and Holy Pascha