Mary

[Isidore_AK]

There were Inquisitions, not just one.

I didn't realize that adding an 'S' to Inquisition would add 2 extra 0's to the true numbers! Wow! I need to add a couple S's to my paycheck!

Most responsible scholars (these are Protestants, Catholics, & Secular historians) estimate that the number executed in ALL of the Inquisitions is between 10 & 30 THOUSAND. Many more were burned in effigy, but I don't think burning a straw man counts as an execution eh? Saying that millions died is an irresponsible & bigoted attack on the Catholic Church. Check your facts please!

 

[Oblio]

Jesus was not to function in the power of his Deity if he was to die in our place.

How are we saved if He did not descend into Hades as God ?
I am still waiting for Scripture that says that only His humanity died !
And yes, it is an orthodox Christian belief to hold to Christ as 100% God and 100% man died on the cross.

 

[sawdust]

How are we saved if He did not descend into Hades as God ?
I am still waiting for Scripture that says that only His humanity died !
And yes, it is an orthodox Christian belief to hold to Christ as 100% God and 100% man died on the cross.

And I'm still waiting for the scripture that explains how God can die and the universe still exist.

peace

 

[Oblio]

And I'm still waiting for the scripture that explains how God can die and the universe still exist

Yours is a hypothetical. We know that we are saved, how can that happen if He did not descend to Hades as Scripture states ? Where is Scripture that refutes this ??

 

[Oblio]

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
(Romans 10:6-7 KJV)

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(Ephesians 4:8-9 KJV)

 

[deu58]

Hi Oblio

As far as I know this is about as close as scripture gets to what genez is talking about concerning the death of his humanity

1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


It does true that Jesus did not rely on his own power but the power of God the father, Nor did he have complete knowledge of the mind of the father,

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Jesus stated he did not know the day or the hour of the Day of the Lord, Only his father knew this,

Jesus came to give us an example of how to follow God, That example was not one of relying on ones own power but relying on the power of God the Father,

yours in Christ
ddeu 58

 

[lionroar0]

 

[sawdust]

Yours is a hypothetical. We know that we are saved, how can that happen if He did not descend to Hades as Scripture states ? Where is Scripture that refutes this ??

Just to clarify.. what's Hades?

My understanding the place Jesus descended to was Sheol where all human souls went after the death of the body. Sheol was divided into two places, Paradise and Torments with a great gulf between the two that couldn't be crossed.

That being the case..what has Christ's descent into Hades got to do with God's ability to die or not?

And my posit wasn't completely hypothetical... Heb.1:3 "... and upholding all things by the word of His power,..."

If I die, my spirit, soul and body separate, so I have to assume if God dies He too separates and if He separates what holds everything together?

I was just doing my own thinking through what the Orthodox and Catholics seem to be saying in this thread and it just doesn't make any sense tis all.

peace

 

[GenemZ]

I didn't realize that adding an 'S' to Inquisition would add 2 extra 0's to the true numbers! Wow! I need to add a couple S's to my paycheck!

Most responsible scholars (these are Protestants, Catholics, & Secular historians) estimate that the number executed in ALL of the Inquisitions is between 10 & 30 THOUSAND. Many more were burned in effigy, but I don't think burning a straw man counts as an execution eh? Saying that millions died is an irresponsible & bigoted attack on the Catholic Church. Check your facts please!

The Catholic church only mudered around 30,000?

Only had 30,000 murdered because they did not agree with them?

Well, I must have been including all those that were tortured.

http://www.paralumun.com/inquisition.htm

Sorry for my misstep.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

How are we saved if He did not descend into Hades as God ?
I am still waiting for Scripture that says that only His humanity died !
And yes, it is an orthodox Christian belief to hold to Christ as 100% God and 100% man died on the cross.

How does God die? Please, tell me?

GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

Yours is a hypothetical. We know that we are saved, how can that happen if He did not descend to Hades as Scripture states ? Where is Scripture that refutes this ??

The soul of Jesus went into Hades, it says, by means of the Spirit.

1 Peter 3:18-20 niv
"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water."

God did not have to "go to Hades." God is already everywhere present. The God I know, is.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

Hi Oblio

As far as I know this is about as close as scripture gets to what genez is talking about concerning the death of his humanity

1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


It does true that Jesus did not rely on his own power but the power of God the father, Nor did he have complete knowledge of the mind of the father,

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Jesus stated he did not know the day or the hour of the Day of the Lord, Only his father knew this,

Jesus came to give us an example of how to follow God, That example was not one of relying on ones own power but relying on the power of God the Father,

yours in Christ
ddeu 58

You got it!

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[deu58]

I didn't realize that adding an 'S' to Inquisition would add 2 extra 0's to the true numbers! Wow! I need to add a couple S's to my paycheck!

Most responsible scholars (these are Protestants, Catholics, & Secular historians) estimate that the number executed in ALL of the Inquisitions is between 10 & 30 THOUSAND. Many more were burned in effigy, but I don't think burning a straw man counts as an execution eh? Saying that millions died is an irresponsible & bigoted attack on the Catholic Church. Check your facts please!

I find it strange that you seem to imply that the death by torture and burning alive of 30 to 40,000 human beings is an acceptable method of spreading the Gospel, To be fair the Protestant church in general is as guilty of shedding innocent blood as the Catholic church

I find it very disturbing when people claiming Christ as their savior whether they be Catholic or Protestant adopt the attitude of "you can not make an omelet with breaking a few eggs you know" towards our duty of spreading the Gospel


Jer 2:34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.

I used to think that inquisitions were a thing of the past never to be seen again, But after seeing the attitudes of some of the posters here I thank God the Catholic church has lost it's power and authority and pray to Jesus, Not Mary, that it is never reestablished, For surely we would suffer another inquisition

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[JimfromOhio]

Who is Jesus? He Was 100% Man

According to John 1:14, Jesus became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

In Hebrews 4:15, Jesus was tempted in every way, just as we are. As such, Jesus can sympathize with our weakness as humans. What can we learn from the way Jesus handled temptation?

According to 1 John 3:5, Jesus came to earth in human form so that He could die a physical death and take away our sins. How would we all be affected, if we had no potential for escape from our sins?

The good news is that God became a man. He was born into a family, like every man. He was flesh and blood, as is every man. He was born of a virgin but nonetheless born. This is the time He became a Son. One of the reasons Jesus left His place in heaven was to experience humanness and become our sympathetic high priest (Heb. 4:14-15). Jesus became a man in order to die for men. He was our substitute, bearing the brunt of God's wrath.

Jesus Christ had to be more than a man; He also had to be God. If Jesus were only a man, even the best of men, He could not have saved man from his sin. If He were even the right man from the seed of David, but not God, He could not have withstood the punishment of God the Father at the cross and risen from the dead. He could not have overcome Satan and the world but would have been conquered as all men are conquered.

If there was ever any question that Jesus was the Son of God, His resurrection from the dead should have ended it. He had to be man to reach us, but He had to be God to lift us up. He became a Son by His Virgin birth and was affirmed a Son again at the resurrection.

Who is Jesus? He Was 100% God
Who is Jesus, and how was it possible that Christ’s human body held the whole deity and glory of God?

According to John 1:1-3, Jesus existed from the beginning. From the beginning, Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God. Here, the Bible establishes the inseparable nature of Jesus and the God of the Universe.

The following verses provide further evidence that Jesus is 100% God:

Highlights of Christ's Time on Earth & the verses:
· Miracles: Luke 7:22
· Eyewitnesses to His perfect life: Matthew 16:13-17
· Fulfillment of Prophecy: Matthew 13:14, Luke 24:44
· Jesus' own identification/claim: John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13- 17, Mark 14:61-64
· Claims of Christ's followers: Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40
· Resurrection: Luke 24:39, Mark 8:31, Acts 17:32

Jesus became a Son in taking on the role of the Son of God at His incarnation. He made the transition from His lofty position with God to the humiliating position of dwelling with sinful man as a man Himself in the role of the Son.

 

[deu58]

Hi Sawdust

was just doing my own thinking through what the Orthodox and Catholics seem to be saying in this thread and it just doesn't make any sense tis all.

Welcome to the club!

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Oblio]

That being the case..what has Christ's descent into Hades got to do with God's ability to die or not?

The only way to get there is to die.

How does God die? Please, tell me?

By Mystically hypostatically joining His divinity with our humanity given by the Theotokos through the good will of the Father, the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus enjoined until the ages of ages, He dies at the hand of those He loves to tear asunder the bonds of death.



[c]

Christ is Risen from the dead,
trampling down death by death,
and upon those in the tombs bestowing life
[/c]

You might read On the Incarnation - Athanasius for a complete treatise on Christin Soteriology.

 

[Oblio]

The soul of Jesus went into Hades, it says, by means of the Spirit.

No, it says quickened by the Spirit.

Are you claiming that Christ's soul was only human and not also Divine ?

 

[Oblio]

To claim any separation of Christ's 2 natures after His Incarnation is heresy.

 

[Axion]

I adhere to the Creed. You just are confused over what I am saying. Some others here get what I said. Should they be banned , too? What would you have left then? Catholics and Orthodox?

Errr... Christians who believe in te Incarnation perhaps.

What I say has for a large extent been the teaching of Dallas Theological Seminary from the days of the founder, Lewis Sperry Chafer as president of the school. Should all Baptists who learned that the Deity of Christ could not die on the Cross be banned, too? They do not believe that Mary was sinless. Nor do they believe Mary was the mother of God. They believe Mary was the mother of his humanity. Every Baptist pastor I have learned from says the same thing. Are they not Christian?

Having read the article linked to on the site, it seems clear that Mr Chafer, after cavilling and backtracking for a thousand words or so, then boldly steps out and into the open hole of heresy by stating that , it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.

Again this is pure Nestorianism and is not standard Baptist theology as far as I am knowledgeable in this matter. It just goes to show how Christians can slip, like the "oneness Pentecostals" right out of belief in the Incarnation, once they let go of the Anchor of what has always been taught by the Church throughout the ages.

He also alleges on another page that "Millions of Catholics have petitioned for Mary to be added to the Trinity"! !!!!!

I am sorry, but that is just complete and utter falsehood.

Once I mention that the humanity of Christ (his manhood) is not Deity, and that his Deity is not his humanity....... you jump through a hoop and begin accusing me of saying that his Deity and humanity do not function as a unit.

But that is exactly what you (and your leader) have said. You say that God the Son did not die on the cross! That is pretty basic. If God the Son did not die for our sins, then how are we redeemed?

 

[GenemZ]

I used to think that inquisitions were a thing of the past never to be seen again, But after seeing the attitudes of some of the posters here I thank God the Catholic church has lost it's power and authority and pray to Jesus, Not Mary, that it is never reestablished, For surely we would suffer another inquisition

Where two or more, agree. I have been seeing that for some time, too.

Grace and peace, GeneZ