Mary: Theotokos?

[Lotar]

Traditional Protestants generally believe that the most important matters of faith are the abstracts of predestination, justification, sanctification, etc. They take this and read St. Augustine and think that he would have sided with them, ignoring that his writings on the suubject contradict themselves, and that on nearly every other subject (especially ecclesiastical) he was in disagreement with them.

 

[JCrawf]

yes, but the Definition of Chalcedon is a creed.

True.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[JCrawf]

I've read Augustine, read Calvin and studied Knox as a young Presbyterian - yes, Augustine loved the sacraments and defended them. Many of their views (i.e. - high view of Scripture, salvation by grace) coincided.[/quetion[

There is a difference between Augustinians and St. Augustine himself. Furthermore, the Church is not bound to hold views of any theologian that go against the teachings of the Church. It is my personal beiw that Augustine himself may have become a bit overzealous in trying to defend the faith against the Pelagians, which led to his rather morbid opinions about the fate of infants. I personally can't believe that a child as an infant is deserving of even a "mild condemnation," being that, through no fault of their own, they were unable to recieve Baptism. God's grace goes beyond any legalistic requirements that we can make - whether Orthodox, Calvinist, or Catholic. Even non-believers have the potential to be saved.

To [the] comment that there is no question or debate on Mary being His mother - excuse me, but that is the topic of this entire thread. I've stated all along that yes, Mary is the Mother of God (and no, I don't think that saying so means she is a divinity).

I think you are partially right, in that there is debate over Mary as the Mother of God. However, it seems that we all agree that Mary is indeed the Mother of God and that this does not imply that she is a divinity. Thusly, this debate is pointless in as much as there isn't much point in arguing over any strawman that would say that we are supposed to defend Mary being the Mother of God because she is a goddess when none of us believes as such. So the debate really is not over the whether Mary is the "God-bearer," but rather on a false and pre-concieved view that theotokos means that Mary is divine.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[edie19]

God's grace goes beyond any legalistic requirements that we can make - whether Orthodox, Calvinist, or Catholic. Even non-believers have the potential to be saved.

Probably the smartest thing I've read in this entire thread.

 

[JCrawf]

Why do you have no qualms about exclaiming you're love for Puritans and reformation leaders, yet you have to qualify that you don't have an exceptional amount of respect for the mother of our Lord and Savior?

It goes back to the debate over adoration/worship vs. reverence/honor. Eventually, any debate over Mary and the Saints comes down to this issue.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[JCrawf]

Probably the smartest thing I've read in this entire thread.

And here I was worried I might have come off a little too "Origenian" with that statement.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[edie19]

And here I was worried I might have come off a little too "Origenian" with that statement.

Pax Tecum,

John

evidently not