Mary Sinless?

[MoNiCa4316]

Is that what your priest told you?

that's what the Greek word means..

 

[Kat8765]

Is that what your priest told you?

No, but I don't see your point. We could argue about this until the end of time. The problem is that you have completely shut your mind to this being a possibility because it is not spelled out for you clearly in the Bible. Sometimes you have to rely on your faith to help guide you. Look at all the answers the other Catholics on here have given you and ask the Lord to help you to understand. This is really all I can say.

 

[calluna]

Is that what your priest told you?

No

Then where did you get this idea? It is not spelled out for you clearly in the Bible, so where did it come from? Not anonymous 'net posters, surely?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

.

 

[Kat8765]

So I can only get my info from 3 sources, My priest, my Bible, and anonymous net posters?

 

[Kat8765]

I had to go find the book....

Word Meanings in the New Testament by Ralph Earle. It's a great book. I highly recommend it!

 

[calluna]

So I can only get my info from 3 sources, My priest, my Bible, and anonymous net posters?

No, you have the whole universe in which to search for your answer. I would recommend only one of those mentioned, but you have completely free choice.

 

[calluna]

I had to go find the book....

Word Meanings in the New Testament by Ralph Earle. It's a great book. I highly recommend it!

You'll recommend it when you give a better answer. Much better.

 

[MrStain]

Is that what your priest told you?

Don't let any other poster give you the impression you don't need to answer.

That's what I told you about 20 pages ago in this thread. What is it with kids these days and their short attention spans??

 

[MrStain]

You'll recommend it when you give a better answer. Much better.

I think you'll understand it better when you toss away that Marcion inspired mutilated Gospel you've been reading.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I can't seem to access any page after page 24 on this thread, Is anyone else having this difficulty?

 

[MrStain]

Same here. I've noticed this for awhile with this thread. Not sure what is going on.

 

[SarahLee1]

Mary was a human being and as such, she was a sinner like the rest of us. But she was also a saint, like all believers are. God calls each and every single one of us for a specific task, hers was to bear Christ's body on earth. But we all have our callings, that was hers.

 

[papist1]

Hi, this is my first post on this site, and I look forward to exploring the community.

To start, I'm currently a member of a Baptist church, and I have been studying Catholicism and Church history lately. My main studies on Catholicism have been over the Internet through various sites, and I've got a book I'm currently reading about the Early Church.

Through my research, I've found that the Catholics have many good points that they defend through Scripture. I can't say that I agree with everything, but I'm developing a much greater understanding of why Catholics believe what they do. Of course, it's hard to argue with a point when there is Scripture to support it, and so I've found that most of my issues with the Church are resolved.

Here is probably the single greatest thing that I now take exception to, and that is the idea that Mary, mother of Jesus, did not sin. I've read a bit on this topic, but it just does not make sense to me that she, who was only human, could have possibly been sinless.

Please note that I'm simply trying to learn as much as I can, and of course I pray that God will lead me down the right path. I know that He will not let me down as long as my trust is in Christ. With that said, I would really appreciate anyone's clarification about Mary, and where the idea of her sinlessness and the Immaculate Conception came from. Thank you.

Have you read the writings of the founders of protestantism?

they all believed in the sinlessness and perpetual virginity of Mary.


in other words, it was taught and believed as a whole basically for the first 2/3 of Christianity. Although it did not become official doctrine until 1854. The Trinity was also believed many years previous to it's being an official doctrine of the Church.

peace, papist

 

[josh0601]

If Mary was sinless then would she have died? The Bible says the wages of sin is death. It says we all have fallen short to the glory of God. It also says, There is no one righteous, no not one". If she was sinless then she could have died on the cross. She could have been the perfect sacrifice instead of Jesus

 

[Jesus Is the Reason]

wow... I don't really agree with the statement that Mary was sinless, although I don't see any reason to say it was impossible...


Hello,
I would like to disagree on the fact that Mary was sinless. So I would like to point out some stuff that I found in my study bible that might help you and others understand that Mary was not sinless.

The Babylonian Religion and Roman Christendom United

Damascus, Bishop of the Christian Church at Rome, was elected to this office. He had been bishop for twelve years, having been made such in 366 A.D. through the influence of the monks of Mount Carmel, a college of the Babylonian religion originally founded by the priests of Jezebel and continued to this day in connection with Rome. So, in 378 A.D., the Babylonian system of religion became part of the Christian Church, for the bishop of Rome, who later became the supreme head of the organized church, was already Supreme Pontiff of the Babylonian Order.
​

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All the teachings of pagan Babylon and Rome were gradually interspersed into the Christian religious organization. Soon after Damascus was made Supreme Pontiff, the rites of Babylon began to come to the front.
​

​

The worship of the Roman Church became Babylonish, and under him the heathen temples were restored and beautified and the rituals established. Thus, the corrupt religious system under the figure of a woman with a golden cup in her hand, making all nations drunk with her fornication, is divinely called “mystery, babylon the great.”
​

​

The changes that transpired in the doctrines and practices of the Roman Church by this union did not come all at once. The Roman Church of today is purely a human institution; her doctrines, which militate against God's Word, were never taught by Christ nor the apostles.

They crept into the church centuries afterward. It can be seen how easily the Babylonish rites were introduced into, and made a part of this church, when the greatest influence in it became the Supreme Pontiff of the Babylonian Order.

The adherents of each religion would not compromise so a union of the two was the outcome. The following points in conjunction with the above history of the rise of the Catholic Church will show some of the pagan elements that entered into the church, many of which were taken from the Babylonian religion:


1) The first after this union was the introduction of the worship of the saints, especially of the virgin Mary. Thousands of pagans entered the church in those times who were accustomed to worshipping the gods of towns and places, and who were not thoroughly Christianized. The veneration of saints and holy men became a worship. Saints were considered lesser deities, whose intercession availed with God. Places connected with the lives of holy men were considered sacred and pilgrimages resulted. Relics or bones of saints were believed to have miracle working power. The worship of the virgin Mary was set up in 381 A.D., three years after Damascus became head of the Babylonian Cult.

Just as the Babylonian Cult worshipped the “Queen of Heaven” and her “Son” and did not worship the “Supreme Father” because He, supposedly, did not interfere with mortal affairs, so the Roman Church has a similar worship in that they worship Mary as the “Mother of God” and her “Son.” The image of mother and child was an object of worship in Babylon long before Christ. From Babylon this spread to the ends of the earth. The original mother was Semiramis, the beautiful queen of Nimrod, who was a paragon of unbridled lust and licentiousness.

In the “mysteries” which she had the chief part in forming, she was worshipped as “Rhea” (Chronicon Paschale, Vol. 1, page 65), the great “Mother of the Gods” with such atrocious rites as identified her with Venus, the mother of all impurity. She raised Babylon, where she reigned, to eminence among the nations as the great seat of idolatry and consecrated prostitution. (Hesiod, Theogonia, Vol. 36, page 453). The apocalyptic emblem of the harlot with cup in hand was one of idolatry derived from ancient Babylon, as they were exhibited in Greece, for thus the Greek Venus was originally represented. (Herodotus, Historia, Book 1, cap. 199, page 92).

The Roman Church has taken this as her emblem. In 1825 a medal was struck bearing the image of Pope Leo XII on one side and on the other side Rome symbolized by a woman with a cross in her left hand and a cup in her right hand and a legend around her “Sedet Super Universum”; i.e., “The whole world is her seat.”

From this original, practically all nations have copied a similar worship and in each land the same figure is carried out under different names. In Egypt the mother and child are known as Isis and Osiris; in India, Isi and Iswara; in Eastern Asia, Cybele and Deoius; in pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiter-puer; in Greece, Ceres or as Irene with Plutus in arms, etc. In Tibet, China, and Japan the Jesuits were surprised to find the counterpart of the madonna (the Italian name for virgin) and her child as devoutly worshipped as in Rome itself. Shing Moo, the mother of China, is represented with child in her arms and a glory around her exactly as if a Catholic artist had painted her. Where did these nations get this common worship if not from Babylon before the dispersion in the days of Nimrod? Thus the worship of Mary in connection with her Son is of Babylonish origin for there is no such worship in Scripture.
—Revelation Expounded: Rev. Finis J. Dake​

 

[Rhamiel]

ok wow a few problems
first off

From Babylon this spread to the ends of the earth. The original mother was Semiramis, the beautiful queen of Nimrod, who was a paragon of unbridled lust and licentiousness.

ok, where do you see anything like this in the Bible? very little is said about Nimrod in the Bible, where do you see anything about a cult to his wife and son?

monks of Mount Carmel, a college of the Babylonian religion originally founded by the priests of Jezebel and continued to this day in connection with Rome

two problems with this, first off, you need to show some proof, you just can not say that a group of monks are pagan without some proof, these people lived for God and it is horrible that you would call them pagan
also, the priests of Jezebel were all killed by Elijah, they could not have formed any such group, they had there throats slit

 

[DiligoImmortalus]

Sin is one of the defining factors of mortality. Those who have become immortal (passed on) are sinless because of our Lord's sacrifice.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sin is one of the defining factors of mortality. Those who have become immortal (passed on) are sinless because of our Lord's sacrifice.

Based upon your statement, am I correct in believing that you are a Universalist?

 

[DiligoImmortalus]

Based upon your statement, am I correct in believing that you are a Universalist?

No, I was just trying to be subjective in what can quickly turn into a hostile argument of denominations. I concur with Martin Luther in that, 'Salvation comes through faith alone."