Mary... One more time

[Wolseley]

If I may, just a quick word on the "co-redemptrix" thing:

Most of the problems about he doctrine of Mary as "co-redemptrix" arise from confusion concerning the Latin title. The doctrine of Mary as co-redemptrix states three things:

1. She co-operated with God by agreeing to bear the Savior into the world.

2. She helped Jesus during His earthly ministry and travelled with Him.

3. She was with Jesus at His execution and suffered terrible anguish when Jesus suffered and died on the Cross.

That's it. There is no mention whatsoever of Mary suffering for mankind's salvation, nor any mention of making her equal to Christ. So why the title "Co-Redemptrix", you ask?

In American English, "co-" means "something equal to", a "partner in"; such as "co-worker", "co-signer", "co-lender", etc. People naturally assume that "co-"anything means "an equal partner to".

But in Latin, "co-" is a derivative of the word c-u-m, meaning "with". (You will notice in all three points above, Mary was with God in His plan; with Jesus as He ministered, and with Jesus when He died.) Therefore the title "Co-Redemptrix" literally means "with the Redeemer", or "alongside the Redeemer". It does NOT mean "equal to the Redeemer", or "another Redeemer", anything like that.

Unfortunately, most Americans know diddly-squat about Latin anymore, so there is a vast misunderstanding about this doctrine based on the title. Personally, I think that "Co-Operatrix" would have been a better choice, since it explains the doctrine more clearly and would avoid the confusion, but the Vatican doesn't consult me on these things.

Hope this helps.
---Wols.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Unfortunately, most Americans know diddly-squat about Latin anymore, so there is a vast misunderstanding about this doctrine based on the title. Personally, I think that "Co-Operatrix" would have been a better choice, since it explains the doctrine more clearly and would avoid the confusion, but the Vatican doesn't consult me on these things

Wouldnt it be in the best interest of the Vatican to communicate in a way that Americans will understand?

 

[jukesk9]

It does help Wols and I totally understand it. But I just think it would be a mistake to proclaim it. I think enough has been defined. Really, what would be the benefit of proclaiming this dogma? Is there anything there that we really need to know? I personally don't think so, but then again, that's just my opinion.

I'm not a touchy, feel good guy, blah blah blah BUT I think we should work hard to help Protestants understand Catholicism and clear up the misunderstandings the Jack Chicks of the world are spreading. Christ prayed that we would become one. Realistically, we may never become one doctrinally, but if we could all come to understand that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, that could be a fulfillment of his prayer. Just imagine the headaches if co-redemptrix was ever proclaimed.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

m not a touchy, feel good guy, blah blah blah BUT I think we should work hard to help Protestants understand Catholicism and clear up the misunderstandings the Jack Chicks of the world are spreading. Christ prayed that we would become one. Realistically, we may never become one doctrinally, but if we could all come to understand that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, that could be a fulfillment of his prayer. Just imagine the headaches if co-redemptrix was ever proclaimed.

Amen. "A house divided will fall"

Did you all know the Pope says in the third millenium that the Protestants will come home? My priest told me that, so I dont have a reference to cite. But with language like "serve" Mary, and this co-Redeemer, co-Mediator, etc, that makes our job so much harder.

 

[panterapat]

Two points here:

Wols, "co-redemptrix" is NOT a doctrine of the Catholic Church "yet".

Souljah, In reading the latest apostolic letter dealing with the "Lumunous Mysteries", I was surprised to discover that the Holy Father stated that the Rosary will be a great aid in evangelization. I always assumed that the Rosary was a hinderance to Christian unity yet the pope wants us to promote it.
~also~
Pope John Paul II highly recommends "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary" by St. Louis DeMonfort. He has said that this book was the most influential book in forming his spiritual life. The pope's official motto is "Totus Tuus". Translated it means "Totally Yours". Here he is refering to Mary!!!!!!!!

You will never err in following Mary for she is a reflection of God's Will. She will lead you to Christ.

However, there are people who have a wrong understanding of Mary's role and could be guilty of disobeying the First Commandment.

In Christ, Patrick

 

[Wolseley]

A doctrine does not have to be a defined teaching to be a doctrine. Doctrines are not infallible. Limbo was a doctrine, but it isn't part of the Church's defined body of teaching.

I am aware of the Holy Father's love for de Montfort's book, and I am delighted that it has helped him. In my own case, the two books which have helped me the most over the years are The Imitation of Christ and Story of a Soul. Both of them, just like de Montfort, fall into the category of devotional literature, however, and devotional literature is entirely optional. If it helps you, groovy. If it doesn't, leave it and find something that does.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Unfortunately, most Americans know diddly-squat about Latin anymore, so there is a vast misunderstanding about this doctrine based on the title. Personally, I think that "Co-Operatrix" would have been a better choice, since it explains the doctrine more clearly and would avoid the confusion, but the Vatican doesn't consult me on these things

I totally appreciate your explanation on these matters, Wolseley. It helps me greatly.

Michelle

 

[Wolseley]

I'm glad I helped.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Wolseley
A doctrine does not have to be a defined teaching to be a doctrine. Doctrines are not infallible. Limbo was a doctrine, but it isn't part of the Church's defined body of teaching.

I am aware of the Holy Father's love for de Montfort's book, and I am delighted that it has helped him. In my own case, the two books which have helped me the most over the years are The Imitation of Christ and Story of a Soul. Both of them, just like de Montfort, fall into the category of devotional literature, however, and devotional literature is entirely optional. If it helps you, groovy. If it doesn't, leave it and find something that does.

Oh, so it is Dogma that is infallible, not Doctrine?



I need a dictionary of Catholicism, lol.

 

[Wolseley]

Deposit, or the original teachings of the Apostles, is infallible.

Dogma, or the formal definition of a teaching or doctrine, is infallible.

Doctrine is not infallible.

Neither is Discipline;

Neither is Devotion.

Remember: there are levels of Catholic teaching, and all of them do not carry the same amount of swing.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Thanks Wols!

 

[panterapat]

The Holy See teaches infallibly in matters of Faith and Morals alone.

In Christ, Patrick