Mary did NOT stay a virgin.

[canadiancatholic]

Matthew:13:55 asks " Isn't he the carpenters son?" I'm not sure but where I come from this insinuates that people thought of him as Josephs son. He didn't rebuke them on this point so it must have some validity.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Matthew:13:55 asks " Isn't he the carpenters son?" I'm not sure but where I come from this insinuates that people thought of him as Josephs son. He didn't rebuke them on this point so it must have some validity.

Yes, I don't think that people were going to say, hey, there go's God's only Son. I think the probably thought Jesus was Joseph's son, not God's. Just because THEY called him that, doesn't make him that. If GOD called him that, then we can talk.

 

[canadiancatholic]

Yes, I don't think that people were going to say, hey, there go's God's only Son. I think the probably thought Jesus was Joseph's son, not God's. Just because THEY called him that, doesn't make him that. If GOD called him that, then we can talk.

But it's in the bible. What other purpose does it hold but to either be a truth (bible is full of truth, is it not?) or it is something that Jesus wanted to clear up. For example, just look at Luke 11: 27-28. 27- When Jesus had said this, a woman spoke up from the crowd and said to him" How happy is the woman that bore you and nursed you!"28- But Jesus answered, "Rather, how happy are those who hear the word of God and obey it!" The famous line protestants quote to show that Mary held no higher esteem than any other. Why the difference in one verse you have people extolling Mary and then Jesus supposedly rebukes them, but in another passage he's called Josephs son and no rebuttal at all? You can't have it both ways.

 

[PassthePeace1]

Even as a child Jesus knew that God was His Father, but He still submitted His obedience to Joseph as His legal father, or step dad if you will....

[BIBLE]Luke 2:49-51[/BIBLE]

 

[Carico]

Psalm 69:8
8I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Galatians 1:19
19But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

John 7:5
5For neither did his brethren believe in him.

And especially; Matthew 1:25, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And they named him Jesus."

 

[rosewaning]

Even as a child Jesus knew that God was His Father, but He still submitted His obedience to Joseph as His legal father, or step dad if you will....

I wouldn't call him a step dad, as there wasn't anything like it back then. He was quite literally Jesus' adoptive father, which, like today, is a good as biological paternity (legally speaking).

 

[PassthePeace1]

I wouldn't call him a step dad, as there wasn't anything like it back then. He was quite literally Jesus' adoptive father, which, like today, is a good as biological paternity (legally speaking).

I know what you mean, I just used step dad, to illustrate the point, I was making....it wasn't my intention to weaken, Joseph's relationship with Jesus...sorry for the confusion.

 

[lionroar0]

There is only one person called the son of Mary in Scripture.

This is what I said in my RCIA when the issue came up. Not word for word but it was essentially the same thing. Also brought up the fact that in Jewish customs the next son in line would have to take care of the mother should the first-born die.

Peace

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Because the Bible says to worship God in TRUTH. I do not want to fight you, nor prove I am right, and you are wrong. I fear for your souls, and don't want to be held accountable for anyone that God has aloud me the oppurtunity to help.

You are not in charge of our souls.
Frankly, I fear for yours. I think you have plenty to worry about dealing with your own soul.
Afterall, Jesus said if you do not eat his flesh and drink his blood you do not have life in you.
So, if you want to quote scripture and fear for folks souls begin with your own.

Tell me, how does if feel when the shoe is on the other foot and you are the one being talked to in such a sanctimoneous way? Pretty insulting, isn't it.

Now, I recommend you go stick your nose in Sacred Scripture and don't take it out until you understand what you are talking about.

I am really getting fed up with this.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Because the Bible says to worship God in TRUTH. I do not want to fight you, nor prove I am right, and you are wrong. I fear for your souls, and don't want to be held accountable for anyone that God has aloud me the oppurtunity to help.

I have given three verses that say Jesus had brothers. So I don't need to find any verse that says Mary was so in so's mother.

Excuse me, the first one came out of the Psalms.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

So what, how are you going to throw away the three verse that I gave you that say Jesus had brothers? If he had brothers, then he had brothers. Mary is Jesus ONLY mother, therefor, if he had brothers, then where do you think they came from? Out of thine air?

None of the James in the New Testament had Joseph as a father. You need to study scripture and you will see that all of the James mentioned also have the names of thier fathers mentioned. Zebedee was one.
Now you have Mary either married to another man or worse.
You have to do better than that.

 

[icedtea]

I can see where BigChris is coming from here, but, I think he is nitpicking. To some, it may be a huge deal, but to me, Jesus was the focus and what saves us.
I can't prove it one way or another, and I don't even want to. No offense to either side, but its a minor issue in salvation.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I can see where BigChris is coming from here, but, I think he is nitpicking. To some, it may be a huge deal, but to me, Jesus was the focus and what saves us.
I can't prove it one way or another, and I don't even want to. No offense to either side, but its a minor issue in salvation.

I do not believe you are offensive.

I do take offense at BigChris with this holier than thou way of talking to us.

Fearing for our souls, indeed. Who made him an Infallible teacher.
Utter nonsense.

Now, it could be very well that I am more than three times older than him, and have taught scripture longer than he has been on this earth. So have many others here that he pulls this stuff with.

I personally believe this young man need to learn a little humility.

 

[jckstraw72]

Joseph was Jesus' legal father. He named Him. The Jews understood there to be power in the name. That's why it was such a big deal that God revelead His name to Moses.

The disciple John took care of Mary, not James or her other supposed children. Why did Jesus break the Law in this manner?

 

[Splayd]

STOP THE PRESS!

Not only did Mary have extra children... BUT Jesus had 2 extra dad's apart from Joseph and God:

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Clearly that must be understood literally using current English practices. Oh hang on a sec.... Maybe, just maybe it's possible that the authors of scripture didn't mean it that way at all. There's an ever so slim chance that maybe these verses are best understood by considering them in their cultural and historical context.

To be fair - While the bible never explicitely says Mary stayed a virgin... IT also never explicitely says she had other children. Like it or not Chris - the words used could be interpreted any number of ways. There's no cut and dry answer here except for those who trust their tradition. For the rest of us it's only speculation.

 

[a_ntv]

To be fair - While the bible never explicitely says Mary stayed a virgin... IT also never explicitely says she had other children. Like it or not Chris - the words used could be interpreted any number of ways. There's no cut and dry answer here except for those who trust their tradition. For the rest of us it's only speculation.

Well, I can tell you a theory:

Joseph had some sons before to marry Mary: two of them are well know: James 'the brother' of the Lord and a Jude.

After the death/ascension of Jesus these two groups came in fight:
- the group of Jesus relatives, headed by James 'the brother of the Lord', that was more tied to the Jewish tradition and had the supremacy in Jerusalem.
- the other group, the 11 apostels headed by Peter and Paul, that was loosing power in Jerusalem and had to spread the gospel out from such a town.

We had same traces of that in the attacks of the Gospels to the 'brothers of Jesus' (Lk 8:21), or by the fact that Peter in Act 12 do not go personally to James before to escape in Antioch or by even the fear of Paul to go to Jerusalem

On the other hand, we know that at the death of James 'the brother of the Lord', the (Jew)-Christians of Jerusalem elected bishop a very relative of Jesus, a son of a brother of Joseph.

Of course Luke in the Acts try to shown the eatly christians as united, so whichver was the truth, we will never know it.

 

[prodromos]

Reuben, Dan, Gad and Joseph are brothers, yet they all have different mothers.
(Genesis 30 or thereabouts)

John

 

[helenofbritain]

Because the Bible says to worship God in TRUTH. I do not want to fight you, nor prove I am right, and you are wrong. I fear for your souls, and don't want to be held accountable for anyone that God has aloud me the oppurtunity to help.

Thanks for worrying about my soul, but please tell me how believing that Mary the Mother of God stayed a virgin her whole life is putting my soul in danger??

You've been big on the "well, scripture says he had brothers so it must be true" line, but you've completely avoided all our questions as to why this is such a big deal.

My first question is - how's your Greek? I think you'll find that their words for relationships are much more fluid than our are today. Means that meanings don't always mean what you think they mean.

Secondly - why try to start fight? I'm sure you KNEW that a thread heading like yours would get attention, and oh, look, it did.

Thirdly, why is considering St Mary to be a virgin any worse than considering St Lucy to be a virgin? I'm not seeing any soul-danger here.

What's going on that we don't know about, Chris? And please play nice...

 

[helenofbritain]

To be fair - While the bible never explicitely says Mary stayed a virgin... IT also never explicitely says she had other children. Like it or not Chris - the words used could be interpreted any number of ways. There's no cut and dry answer here except for those who trust their tradition. For the rest of us it's only speculation.

OK, so maybe the bible didn't say it, but Mary sure did. When she appeared at Guadalupe (that's in Mexico, kids!) in 1531 she introduced herself to Juan (the man she appeared to) like this, and I quote:

"Know and understand well, you the most humble of my sons, that I am the ever virgin Holy Mary, Mother of the True God for whom we live, of the Creator of all things, Lord of heaven and the earth...."

There's a whole lot more to what she said in that apparition, so if you're interested in that, visit world wide web dot sancta dot org (you'll need to clean that up, obviously. I'm apparently not allowed to post links yet).

So now we know

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I have a brother, and a sister. Neither one of us have the same biological mother, in fact only my sister was born of her, and my brother and I have different mothers (and fathers). Citing brothers means nothing, especially in light of OT prophecy and the witness of the early Church.

And you have yet to answer if and why my soul is in danger for my belief.

SO....let me get this...your half brothers/sisters AREN'T really your bro/sis??? because you have different parantage??? UM...there is ALOT wrong with that line of thinking. SO what..I have half siblings too..BUT in NO way do I say they aren't really my siblings cause we have different parents... <edited>