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Mary as mediatrix?

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thereselittleflower

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Let's make a distinction. It is not judging when we can discern that another is in sin for doing something that Bible itself tells us is a sin. If we were not to discern the behavior of others than how could we follow such directives like the one from St. Paul when he tells us not to call the sexually immoral our brother ? Or when he tells us to counsel those who spread false teaching ?
Idoaltry is a matter of the heart not appearances. It cannot be discerned by outward appearances unless the person admits to it.

For anyone to sit in judgement of another on such matters is to judge their heart, which God ALONE is the judge of.

No one has the right to judge the heart of another, for then one is judging the heart on appearances. This is a very dangerous thing to do BA. For God has said

Judge not that ye be not judged, for with what you judge you shall be judged.

If anyone judges another's heart on appearances, then God will judge their heart, not on what is actually there, but on appearances . . .


Who wants their heart to be judged by God on appearnaces?


Since anyone here cannot judge anothers heart, no accusations or implications of idolatry are justified in any way.

I hope they will not continue.
 
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BAFRIEND

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I disagree. :) What is going in in this thread is not what you are claiming or addressing . . no one is guilty of idolatry or even coming close to idolatry though this has been a constant accusations.



No one has hyped any such thing BA. And your pov of Church teacing on this is all you are stating.



Punished???? By whom??? Who is punishing whom BA???

And no one has labeled you or anyone as "less Cathaolic". This is a gross misrepresentation of what has happened in this thread and it might be good to step back from it rather than perpetuate such misrepresentations of the intents of others.

Okay, I think that anyone who went back and read this entire thread would be hard put to state that I am perpetuating misrepresentations either to the fact of what I have insinuated against individuals or their beliefs. You have numersouly accused me of protestant practices of personal interpretation and revertism and of being a convert. You have alos attacked a priest a quoted who you have never even read who unknown to you has written books and other infromational media on the Saint Mary who in no way are you entitled to disqualify. You state that I cherry pick Church writings out of comment when in fact that Church statements stand on their own.

You accuse and comment on another's position and standing in the Church when that person has never posted hardly anything in this forum that did not reflect anything other than a Christ centered faith and her intense love of Jesus. As a person who was on an RCIA team for a number of years, I know that her standing in Church is not one of a convert and RCIA is not a means of re-entry for her. She is already a member of the Church and her full communion is only a question of one or two admin steps including confession, etc. . Anyone stating differently has never been fully involved in the RCIA process and its purpose.
 
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BAFRIEND

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Idoaltry is a matter of the heart not appearances. It cannot be discerned by outward appearances unless the person admits to it.

For anyone to sit in judgement of another on such matters is to judge their heart, which God ALONE is the judge of.

No one has the right to judge the heart of another, for then one is judging the heart on appearances. This is a very dangerous thing to do BA. For God has said

Judge not that ye be not judged, for with what you judge you shall be judged.
If anyone judges another's heart on appearances, then God will judge their heart, not on what is actually there, but on appearances . . .


Who wants their heart to be judged by God on appearnaces?


Since anyone here cannot judge anothers heart, no accusations or implications of idolatry are justified in any way.

I hope they will not continue.

You should reread your own comments towards others in this thread and objectively decide if perhaps you should apply your post to yourself as well.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Are you receiving communion at a Catholic Mass when you are not yet Catholic?

If so, you need to stop until you do come into the Catholic Church.

To partake of communion in a Catholic Church means that you accept and profess all the Catholic Church teaches is true, and that you have confessed to a priest all your serous sins and received absolution.

To partake without this being true means one is partaking of Holy Communion contrary to the teachings of the Church and in disobedience to the Church.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I clearly came away from what you have said understanding that you were not yet Catholic.


You are NOT in position of authority in the church. Your doing grave damage to her. You need to cease and desist.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Okay, I think that anyone who went back and read this entire thread would be hard put to state that I am perpetuating misrepresentations either to the fact of what I have insinuated against individuals or their beliefs. You have numersouly accused me of protestant practices of personal interpretation and revertism and of being a convert. You have alos attacked a priest a quoted who you have never even read who unknown to you has written books and other infromational media on the Saint Mary who in no way are you entitled to disqualify. You state that I cherry pick Church writings out of comment when in fact that Church statements stand on their own.

You accuse and comment on another's position and standing in the Church when that person has never posted hardly anything in this forum that did not reflect anything other than a Christ centered faith and her intense love of Jesus. As a person who was on an RCIA team for a number of years, I know that her standing in Church is not one of a convert and RCIA is not a means of re-entry for her. She is already a member of the Church and her full communion is only a question of one or two admin steps including confession, etc. . Anyone stating differently has never been fully involved in the RCIA process and its purpose.

Please step back from the whole situation and instead of assuming others are tryng to make things hard on you, try to listen to what is really being said.

First, no one has questioned your standing with the Church.

Second, I thought you had reverted back to the faith from protetantism. You took offense to my saying you converted, and so I told you that this is what I remembered, and asked if I remembered wrong, or if you had been protestant for a while and revereted to the faith. You did not answer that question that I can see and I dropped it. But you keep bringing it up as if it is an ongoing issue.

Why continue to make an issue of this? If people misremember something about you BA, that is no reason to get so offended. Just clarify and move on.

As for your other comments, I see no reason to go on about what sources you produced that really don't of themselves justify the way they are being used.

No one has attacked any priests.

Using Church documents in ways that ignore the bigger picture do not validate statements made against those who take an opposing pov to your own.

There are a lot of false accusastons in the post above, and really this all needs to stop.


Someone who is a lapsed Catholic needs to be fully reconciled to the Church before being able to partake in communion, and this needs to be upheld in OBOB, for it is a very serous and grave issue.

Those who eat and drink the eucharist unworthily eat and drink danmnation to themselves, being guilty of the body and blood of Christ.

I am deeply concerned that informing someone of this fact is resulting in this type of response.

Is there a problem with informing lapsed Catholics about the need to abstain from Holy Communion until they have been reconcilled to the Chuch?

If so, on what basis?
 
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BAFRIEND

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Originally Posted by kisstheson
Mary doesn't offer Jesus me. the priest does. forget about. I'll think about Jesus when I go to communion, not Mary. Now I'm really outta here. Later.
Someone who is a lapsed Catholic needs to be fully reconciled to the Church before being able to partake in communion, and this needs to be upheld in OBOB, for it is a very serous and grave issue.

Those who eat and drink the eucharist unworthily eat and drink danmnation to themselves, being guilty of the body and blood of Christ.

I am deeply concerned that informing someone of this fact is resulting in this type of response.

Is there a problem with informing lapsed Catholics about the need to abstain from Holy Communion until they have been reconcilled to the Chuch?

If so, on what basis?

If you look at the quote at the top of this post, she did not state she was receiving communion, yet you jumped all over her with this insinuation. She stated that she would think of Jesus "when I go to communion". To me, there was something very condenscending about the way you went about this.

This was not something better sent in a PM ?
 
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isshinwhat

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In reading I came across these pasasages from Pope John Paul II and thought they were beautiful. For anyone who is suffering, take heart! I know I said I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but this was too beautiful not to pass on...

http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2salvi.htm

APOSTOLIC LETTER
SALVIFICI DOLORIS
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS, TO THE PRIESTS,
TO THE RELIGIOUS FAMILIES
AND TO THE FAITHFUL
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ON THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF HUMAN SUFFERING​


24. Nevertheless, the Apostle's experiences as a sharer in the sufferings of Christ go even further. In the Letter to the Colossians we read the words which constitute as it were the final stage of the spiritual journey in relation to suffering: "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the Church"(78). And in another Letter he asks his readers: "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?"(79).
In the Paschal Mystery Christ began the union with man in the community of the Church. The mystery of the Church is expressed in this: that already in the act of Baptism, which brings about a configuration with Christ, and then through his Sacrifice—sacramentally through the Eucharist—the Church is continually being built up spiritually as the Body of Christ. In this Body, Christ wishes to be united with every individual, and in a special way he is united with those who suffer. The words quoted above from the Letter to the Colossians bear witness to the exceptional nature of this union. For, whoever suffers in union with Christ— just as the Apostle Paul bears his "tribulations" in union with Christ— not only receives from Christ that strength already referred to but also "completes" by his suffering "what is lacking in Christ's afflictions". This evangelical outlook especially highlights the truth concerning the creative character of suffering. The sufferings of Christ created the good of the world's redemption. This good in itself is inexhaustible and infinite. No man can add anything to it. But at the same time, in the mystery of the Church as his Body, Christ has in a sense opened his own redemptive suffering to all human suffering. In so far as man becomes a sharer in Christ's sufferings—in any part of the world and at any time in history—to that extent he in his own way completes the suffering through which Christ accomplished the Redemption of the world.
Does this mean that the Redemption achieved by Christ is not complete? No. It only means that the Redemption, accomplished through satisfactory love, remains always open to all love expressed in human suffering. In this dimension—the dimension of love—the Redemption which has already been completely accomplished is, in a certain sense, constantly being accomplished. Christ achieved the Redemption completely and to the very limits but at the same time he did not bring it to a close. In this redemptive suffering, through which the Redemption of the world was accomplished, Christ opened himself from the beginning to every human suffering and constantly does so. Yes, it seems to be part of the very essence of Christ's redemptive suffering that this suffering requires to be unceasingly completed.
Thus, with this openness to every human suffering, Christ has accomplished the world's Redemption through his own suffering. For, at the same time, this Redemption, even though it was completely achieved by Christ's suffering, lives on and in its own special way develops in the history of man. It lives and develops as the body of Christ, the Church, and in this dimension every human suffering, by reason of the loving union with Christ, completes the suffering of Christ. It completes that suffering just as the Church completes the redemptive work of Christ. The mystery of the Church—that body which completes in itself also Christ's crucified and risen body—indicates at the same time the space or context in which human sufferings complete the sufferings of Christ. Only within this radius and dimension of the Church as the Body of Christ, which continually develops in space and time, can one think and speak of "what is lacking" in the sufferings of Christ. The Apostle, in fact, makes this clear when he writes of "completing what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the Church".
It is precisely the Church, which ceaselessly draws on the infinite resources of the Redemption, introducing it into the life of humanity, which is the dimension in which the redemptive suffering of Christ can be constantly completed by the suffering of man. This also highlights the divine and human nature of the Church. Suffering seems in some way to share in the characteristics of this nature. And for this reason suffering also has a special value in the eyes of the Church. It is something good, before which the Church bows down in reverence with all the depth of her faith in the Redemption. She likewise bows down with all the depth of that faith with which she embraces within herself the inexpressible mystery of the Body of Christ.
VI. THE GOSPEL OF SUFFERING
25. The witnesses of the Cross and Resurrection of Christ have handed on to the Church and to mankind a specific Gospel of suffering. The Redeemer himself wrote this Gospel, above all by his own suffering accepted in love, so that man "should not perish but have eternal life"(80). This suffering, together with the living word of his teaching, became a rich source for all those who shared in Jesus' sufferings among the first generation of his disciples and confessors and among those who have come after them down the centuries.
It is especially consoling to note—and also accurate in accordance with the Gospel and history—that at the side of Christ, in the first and most exalted place, there is always his Mother through the exemplary testimony that she bears by her whole life to this particular Gospel of suffering. In her, the many and intense sufferings were amassed in such an interconnected way that they were not only a proof of her unshakeable faith but also a contribution to the redemption of all. In reality, from the time of her secret conversation with the angel, she began to see in her mission as a mother her "destiny" to share, in a singular and unrepeatable way, in the very mission of her Son. And she very soon received a confirmation of this in the events that accompanied the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, and in the solemn words of the aged Simeon, when he spoke of a sharp sword that would pierce her heart. Yet a further confirmation was in the anxieties and privations of the hurried flight into Egypt, caused by the cruel decision of Herod.
And again, after the events of her Son's hidden and public life, events which she must have shared with acute sensitivity, it was on Calvary that Mary's suffering, beside the suffering of Jesus, reached an intensity which can hardly be imagined from a human point of view but which was mysterious and supernaturally fruitful for the redemption of the world. Her ascent of Calvary and her standing at the foot of the Cross together with the Beloved Disciple were a special sort of sharing in the redeeming death of her Son. And the words which she heard from his lips were a kind of solemn handing-over of this Gospel of suffering so that it could be proclaimed to the whole community of believers.
As a witness to her Son's Passion by her presence, and as a sharer in it by her compassion, Mary offered a unique contribution to the Gospel of suffering, by embodying in anticipation the expression of Saint Paul which was quoted at the beginning. She truly has a special title to be able to claim that she "completes in her flesh"—as already in her heart—"what is lacking in Christ's afflictions ".

In the light of the unmatchable example of Christ, reflected with singular clarity in the life of his Mother, the Gospel of suffering, through the experience and words of the Apostles, becomes an inexhaustible source for the ever new generations that succeed one another in the history of the Church. The Gospel of suffering signifies not only the presence of suffering in the Gospel, as one of the themes of the Good News, but also the revelation of the salvific power and salvific significance of suffering in Christ's messianic mission and, subsequently, in the mission and vocation of the Church.​
P.S. Since I'm not talking about the Co-Redemptrix or Mediatrix, I've not technically broken my vow against posting in here, right? ;)
 
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kisstheson

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Look... I was confirmed as a catholic. One of the reasons why I left the the RCC was because of some of the Mary worship I see there. You say its not Mary worship but when you keep on insisting that Mary is the Tree of Life in the book of revelations as though it would be a crime to yeild that verse to Jesus I'm thinking something is off with such extreme devotion to Mary. I will never say that scripture refers to her. never. I don't even care if the Pope himself insists that she is. Jesus Christ is the Root and the Tree. He is the Vine. I will never say in Heaven that people are going to her for healing when she leads people to Jesus. Her leaves are for healing? nope! I see this battle cry to defend Mary. lets see the same battle cry to defend Jesus. When Bafriend points out verses clearly stating that Jesus is the root of david and so on and no one even awknowledges the truth of those verses but still insist mary is the tree of life it grieves me beyond words. all you are doing is turning me off from the catholic church.

I believe she is a perpetual virgin. I believe she';s the mother of God but this other stuff is over rhe top. I don't think Jesus is honored at all when you give Mary His titles. wow...and you say you love Jesus just as much? You should be outraged to see Him lessoned in the slightest degree.
 
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kisstheson

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"And again, after the events of her Son's hidden and public life, events which she must have shared with acute sensitivity, it was on Calvary that Mary's suffering, beside the suffering of Jesus, reached an intensity which can hardly be imagined from a human point of view but which was mysterious and supernaturally fruitful for the redemption of the world. Her ascent of Calvary and her standing at the foot of the Cross together with the Beloved Disciple were a special sort of sharing in the redeeming death of her Son. And the words which she heard from his lips were a kind of solemn handing-over of this Gospel of suffering so that it could be proclaimed to the whole community of believers.
As a witness to her Son's Passion by her presence, and as a sharer in it by her compassion, Mary offered a unique contribution to the Gospel of suffering, by embodying in anticipation the expression of Saint Paul which was quoted at the beginning. She truly has a special title to be able to claim that she "completes in her flesh"—as already in her heart—"what is lacking in Christ's afflictions ".

brooother...why don't you change her name to jesus? To even dare compare her sufferings to those of Christ's...:confused: Paul is the one who wrote that verse about completing was is lacking in Christ's suffering. he never mentions Mary. he should get special acclaim too. In fact he was lashed, beaten, stoned, shipped wrecked. What about paul? lets give him a hardy hand clap.

 
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JoabAnias

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What about paul? lets give him a hardy hand clap.

What a great idea. It is the year of Saint Paul and your right he did a ton. He was one tough cookie. As are all martyrs for the faith. ;)
 
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JoabAnias

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I look at asking Mary to pray for me like this:

Luk 1:46-55 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior.
Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.
And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.
He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.
He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble.
He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away.
He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy.
As he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

Its simple, her soul Magnifies the Lord!

Let it never be known that anyone who implored her help was left unaided.

Mother of Jesus I thank you for helping me build a bridge back to Jesus so many times. I love you for that.

Jesus, my redeemer, I praise you and worship you for giving me Mary as my mother from your cross when you said "behold your mother". I will honor her and keep her close to my heart always just as you do. Hi Mom who is full of grace and who is with our Lord. How blessed you are and how blessed is the fruit of you womb. Please pray for me and all my friends here on this site to the Lord our God now and at the moment of our deaths. Thanks in advance.

Almighty Father you are my one God in three. From you all things were made and your Son begotten and your Spirit proceeds. I worship you and glorify you. I eternally thank you for giving me to Jesus and for giving Jesus such a beautiful earthy family when He walked with us in the flesh. God thank you in your omnipotent goodness for giving us Jesus as a mediator with you and sending your Spirit upon us and all His gifts. Thank you for giving us a mediator with Jesus in His earthy mother and all the saints with you in heaven. Thank you for allowing us our trials to grow and learn so that we may always be drawn closer to and more fully appreciate your most perfect wisdom. Father we are yours alone. By the merits of Jesus most holy sacrifice I beg you dear Father to bring all who read this to an orderly knowledge and wisdom of your ways that they may be always protected from errors and darkness and also freed from guilt. I love you with a sincere and a contrite heart my almighty master. I worship you and praise you for your words of guidance that we all may know your will and the magnitude of your love for us.

Oh Holy Spirit please sanctify us. Convict us of our iniquity and purge it from us in this life so that when it is done we may forever be united to you and all our brothers and sisters who have gone before us. Take our will with your grace oh Great Spirit. Bring down upon us your gifts so powerfully that we cannot ignore them. Please free all who read this from any binding guilt or fear. Please make it known to them that they can be forgiven.

Saint Michael the Arch angel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness of the snares of the devil. God, please rebuke him, I humbly pray, and do though o prince of the heavenly host by the Power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits prowling about the world trying to ruin our souls.

Dear guardian Angel from God above, lighten the darkness on the ones I love, protect and defend me from the perils in life and touch my heart with Gods love and light. If any one for whom I care may have the need please flee to them and provide your assistance.

Amen.
 
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CathNancy

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I look at asking Mary to pray for me like this:

Luk 1:46-55 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior.
Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.
And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.
He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.
He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble.
He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away.
He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy.
As he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

Its simple, her soul Magnifies the Lord!

Let it never be known that anyone who implored her help was left unaided.

Mother of Jesus I thank you for helping me build a bridge back to Jesus so many times. I love you for that.

Jesus, my redeemer, I praise you and worship you for giving me Mary as my mother from your cross when you said "behold your mother". I will honor her and keep her close to my heart always just as you do. Hi Mom who is full of grace and who is with our Lord. How blessed you are and how blessed is the fruit of you womb. Please pray for me and all my friends here on this site to the Lord our God now and at the moment of our deaths. Thanks in advance.

Almighty Father you are my one God in three. From you all things were made and your Son begotten and your Spirit proceeds. I worship you and glorify you. I eternally thank you for giving me to Jesus and for giving Jesus such a beautiful earthy family when He walked with us in the flesh. God thank you in your omnipotent goodness for giving us Jesus as a mediator with you and sending your Spirit upon us and all His gifts. Thank you for giving us a mediator with Jesus in His earthy mother and all the saints with you in heaven. Thank you for allowing us our trials to grow and learn so that we may always be drawn closer to and more fully appreciate your most perfect wisdom. Father we are yours alone. By the merits of Jesus most holy sacrifice I beg you dear Father to bring all who read this to an orderly knowledge and wisdom of your ways that they may be always protected from errors and darkness and also freed from guilt. I love you with a sincere and a contrite heart my almighty master. I worship you and praise you for your words of guidance that we all may know your will and the magnitude of your love for us.

Oh Holy Spirit please sanctify us. Convict us of our iniquity and purge it from us in this life so that when it is done we may forever be united to you and all our brothers and sisters who have gone before us. Take our will with your grace oh Great Spirit. Bring down upon us your gifts so powerfully that we cannot ignore them. Please free all who read this from any binding guilt or fear. Please make it known to them that they can be forgiven.

Saint Michael the Arch angel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness of the snares of the devil. God, please rebuke him, I humbly pray, and do though o prince of the heavenly host by the Power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits prowling about the world trying to ruin our souls.

Dear guardian Angel from God above, lighten the darkness on the ones I love, protect and defend me from the perils in life and touch my heart with Gods love and light. If any one for whom I care may have the need please flee to them and provide your assistance.

Amen.

Beautiful prayers Joab, thank you.

Nancy
 
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CathNancy

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Look... I was confirmed as a catholic. One of the reasons why I left the the RCC was because of some of the Mary worship I see there. You say its not Mary worship but when you keep on insisting that Mary is the Tree of Life in the book of revelations as though it would be a crime to yeild that verse to Jesus I'm thinking something is off with such extreme devotion to Mary. I will never say that scripture refers to her. never. I don't even care if the Pope himself insists that she is. Jesus Christ is the Root and the Tree. He is the Vine. I will never say in Heaven that people are going to her for healing when she leads people to Jesus. Her leaves are for healing? nope! I see this battle cry to defend Mary. lets see the same battle cry to defend Jesus. When Bafriend points out verses clearly stating that Jesus is the root of david and so on and no one even awknowledges the truth of those verses but still insist mary is the tree of life it grieves me beyond words. all you are doing is turning me off from the catholic church.

I believe she is a perpetual virgin. I believe she';s the mother of God but this other stuff is over rhe top. I don't think Jesus is honored at all when you give Mary His titles. wow...and you say you love Jesus just as much? You should be outraged to see Him lessoned in the slightest degree.

Kisstheson, I say with love, God is drawing you back to the Catholic Church and what is said on this forum should have no bearing on if you decide to proceed. Devotion to Mary is a part of the Catholic life, but there have been times when it does go too far and this is one of the things that the Church warns of. Mary is our mother, she is an advocate for us as any mother would be. I pray for my sons everyday, even though they do not ask it of me, but I really want them to come back to Jesus because I love them. I am far from perfect, but Mary who is made perfect by God, as He makes all who attain heaven perfect, has more love than I and will pray more perfectly for her children than I can. So I ask Mary for her prayers as well for all who do not know Jesus. Mary was the greatest disciple of Jesus because she always did the will of God, a grace given to her by God as all graces come from God. No one, Marby included can do anything without the grace of God. Because of God's grace, Mary keeps the commands of God, to love God with her whole heart, her whole mind , her whole soul, and her whole streangth and to love one another as Jesus loves us. Again, this is with the grace of God, not anything that she does on her own. Because of God's grace given to her, Mary cooperated with God in His plan for the salvation of man, could God have saved us without Mary? Of course He could have, but this is the way that He chose to do His work, through people. St. Joseph, the apostles, St. Paul, and all the saints, known and unknown also by the grace of God cooperate with God's plan to redeem mankind. Again, this is the grace of God working within them, it is nothing that they do on their own. Each and every person by their baptism become a member of the Body of Christ and as such cooperate with God's plan to redeem the world, by the grace of God and nothing that we do on our own.

I guess what I am trying to say is that God saves by grace through faith and those who respond to that faith and witness to their faith in God by their actions, cooperate with God's plan to redeem the world and by their cooperation contribute to the redemptive act of Jesus because He allows us to participate in His death and resurrection in a small manner. Jesus is the redeemer, but when we do His will, He allows us to participate in His redemptive work. I remember reading many years ago, "by the cross keeping, stood the sorrowful mother weeping". Mary's suffering at the sight of her beloved Son and her God, dying for our sins, participated in God's redeeming work. Jesus alone is the redeemer and to He alone goes the glory of God, but Mary is honored by the Church because of her faithful obedience to God's will. Mary's obedience contined when Jesus said first to Mary, "woman behold your son" and then to the beloved apostle, "son behold your mother". Mary accepted the role that Jesus was giving her to be the mother of us all. Jesus referred to Mary as woman, a name first given to Eve because she was the mother of all the living, but now given to Mary because she is the mother of all God's children who live in Christ. Some of those children particpated in the crucifixion of her Son, one denied knowing Him, some ran away in fear leaving Jesus alone to suffer His death, but she accepted this role to them as well because of the grace of God which filled her like no other person in history. I do not include Jesus in this because He is God and the grace which is God fills Hm and is not given to Him but rather is given by Him.

The question is do you follow where Jesus is leading you because you love Jesus, or do you abandon your search because of what others, who may be in error, say to you?

I pray that you search out what the Church teaches concerning Mary by reading the Catechism of the Church and the Early Church Fathers who were closest to the apostles.

God Bless,
Nancy
 
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isshinwhat

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brooother...why don't you change her name to jesus?

This brings up some interesting questions that I believe may be the root of our misunderstandings in this thread:

1) What does it mean to you to be the Body of Christ, the Church?

2) What does it mean to "escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4)?

3) What does the "...all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him" (Romans 8:17) mean to you?
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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This thread has become about a handful of people (with some notable exceptions) with personal biases that they want to cling to with ferocity.

Why argue with people who are going to base whether or not to return to the Church on a thread on the internet? Why argue with people who fail to understand that Scrpture can have multiple symbolism? (e.g. some things which are symblic of Israel are at the same time symbolic of the Church) Why argue with people who say things like "never" and "always"? Why argue with people who so very clearly do NOT want to grow in understanding and to gain a more complex understanding??

Talk about an exercise in futility.

I just hope this means that people who are not Catholic will quit boning "cultural" Catholics and "liberal, secularist" Catholics...and generally being of the attitude that most Catholics aren't Catholc enough--rather understanding that for some, most, the fullness of Catholic teaching is a progressive thing ...and recognizing that those who are indifferent or "liberal" at least have enough huility to reognise their need for the Church and HEr sacraments as they work out their salvation with fear and trembling.
 
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BAFRIEND

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Can we close this thread, please? I asked a few pages ago. Please, mods, close it down. It is doing far more harm than any good.

I posted this earlier, report your OP with the requests- with the rate and number of posts no one is going to see your request unless you put it in a report.
 
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