Mary and Joseph

[Benedicta00]

I *think* what OUSA was trying to say about the Church, is that no individual, or even groups are infallible. Only the Church as a whole is infallible. A whole group of Bishops could be wrong, such as with the Arian heresey. It took the Church as a whole to come to the Truth.

And the Orthodox Church does not dogmatize things which are not directly connected to our salvation, and the Holy Trinity. That is one reason we don't have many dogmas about the Theotokos. That's why we leave things as Mystery - such as how the bread and wine become the true Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm sure he didn't mean to say that anything the Church teaches dogmatically is wrong. The Holy Spirit speaks through the whole Church to keep it in Christ. Sometimes it's messy, sometimes it takes a while. But Truth prevails.

Mary

and that would make sense.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Then what doctrine might you be wrong about? The Eucharist? Mary's PV? The dual natures of Christ?

Tell me what separates you from the Protestants if you think no one has the whole truth and nothing but?

I could not point you to one that IS wrong. I am mearly stating that we do not say we are infallable.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

a time when you were in union with Rome... interesting.

A time when we were one. The Church of Rome has gone on to do and say things that are un-Holy.

Forgive me....

 

[Benedicta00]

I could not point you to one that IS wrong. I am mearly stating that we do not say we are infallable.

Forgive me...

which is a far cry from what you said before.

I'm not looking to get on your bad side, just to warn you to be careful that in your zeal you do not speak errors about you own faith in order to make the EO church look attractive.

 

[Benedicta00]

A time when we were one. The Church of Rome has gone on to do and say things that are un-Holy.

Forgive me....

touche dude.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

what i want to know is, on who's authority do you make a dogma in the EO Church if you are subject to being wrong?

Are you telling me you obligate the EO laity to believe doctrines that you are not a 100% sure is even correct?

Or is what you're saying, outside of dogma the EO may be wrong about everything?

But if you are subject to error, where do you get the authority from to make a dogma? Oh yeah, all those EO dogmas were made while you were in union with Rome...

USA, I'm not trying to pick on you even though I know how you feel about Catholics and the Catholic faith. I'm just asking you to be careful that in your zeal to bring others to Orthodoxy, you don't go over board in your pandering to their Catholic bias.

Do we make dogma?

We attempt to follow what has always been believed from the beginning by all Christians everywhere.

Changing things disconnects us from the heavenly host and the cloud of witnesses who have gone before us.

Forgive me...

 

[Benedicta00]

Do we make dogma?

We attempt to follow what has always been believed from the beginning by all Christians everywhere.

Changing things disconnects us from the heavenly host and the cloud of witnesses who have gone before us.

Forgive me...

I agree.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

which is a far cry from what you said before.

I'm not looking to get on your bad side, just to warn you to be careful that in your zeal you do not speak errors about you own faith in order to make the EO church look attractive.

Perhaps you read too much into what I posted.

Forgive me...

 

[Benedicta00]

Perhaps you read too much into what I posted.

Forgive me...

Perhaps

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

*OrthodoxyUSA puts down his sword.*

Forgive me...

 

[Benedicta00]

*OrthodoxyUSA puts down his sword.*

Forgive me...

I should be the one who loses the sword. I stated it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I should be the one who loses the sword. I stated it.

You are most gracious. You are forgiven.

Please, forgive me, the sinner.

...

 

[repentant]

Are they Part of the scripture that God wanted for us to hear and see and adhere to? If not then yes I do question this. Does this line up with the rest of scripture? Does it back what has already been said through those whom were an eyewittness to Christ? The History that we need to believe and be saved is all written in the Holy Scriptures.. We have from creation to the end written in scripture.. What else do we need? I can look at History and not just of the church and see Gods hand in everything that has every happened.. For His purpose and For His glory..I don't need tradition to speak to me what I am to believe.. I have Gods written and infallable word to bring me into subjection of Christ..

St. Evodos that OrthUSA quoted above in his writings, WAS an eyewitness to Christ. He was one of the 70 and a Disciple to Peter the Apostle. I believe he would be in the know. What is funny is that in Scripture, Tradition IS what speaks to you.

You also mention if these writings are what God wanted us to see and adhere to. In a way yes. God wanted us to adhere and listen to the oral Traditions that were taught. St. Paul says this. He does not say only adhere to what we wrote, but ALSO what we said.

Our beliefs on Mary and Josephs age, and what happened in there lives, do not contradict Scripture.

 

[repentant]

I am not even going to comment on this, since this is NOT what I did. Yes, God is the same yesterday today and forever, but He isn't stagnant either. Repentant, I am putting you on ignore, because you take what I say and twist it to your own agenda. I am tired of it. Be blessed brother...

You said thank God the Church progressed. Your words not mine.

 

[repentant]

careful when you say "did not" perhaps "should not" is accurate, but "did not" is completely untrue.

HOw is that? The Church Christ established DID NOT progress, and is the same as it always has been.

 

[repentant]

Whoa!
The majority of Christians believe that Joseph and Mary were married, they had children after the birth of Jesus.
This is based on the word of God as written in the Bible. Where most Christians, the vast majority of Christians, get their information about God and what He would have us do and be.

No majority does not believe what you say. Nor does Scripture make any claim the they had relations or other children.

 

[repentant]

If people choose to believe something that is in direct contradiction to scripture, that's very sad. Scripture says they married, scripture says Jesus had siblings. What your church's leaders have to say about it is clearly wrong.

I like to know what Bible you read..

You do know that the parents of the people called Jesus' brother's is mentioned in Scripture don't you? Also I would like to see where Scripture ever says they were married.

 

[ScottBot]

No majority does not believe what you say. Nor does Scripture make any claim the they had relations or other children.

I find that most American evangelical Christians think the world of theology revolves around it's own brand of interpretive relativism. It usually strikes people as funny that there are more Orthodox Christians in the world than there are ALL species of Americans. Let's all hear it for Americo-centrism........

 

[repentant]

I find that most American evangelical Christians think the world of theology revolves around it's own brand of interpretive relativism. It usually strikes people as funny that there are more Orthodox Christians in the world than there are ALL species of Americans. Let's all hear it for Americo-centrism........

Most Americans don't even know what Orthodoxy is..for the most part. I was asked once by a "preacher" that I worked with what religion I was. And out of habit I just said Orthodox, instead of Christian or Orthodox Christian. And he replied, "Oh so your Jewish?"

 

[ScottBot]

Most Americans don't even know what Orthodoxy is..for the most part. I was asked once by a "preacher" that I worked with what religion I was. And out of habit I just said Orthodox, instead of Christian or Orthodox Christian. And he replied, "Oh so your Jewish?"

Do you dress in black, with a black hat, full beard, and one of those knotted skirt thingies they wear?