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We never claimed to have anything 100% correct... and never would.
Forgive me...
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I don't desire contact with ancient Christianity. I desire contact with Christ.
cool, I know that.
ah, so you believe that you can still end up in hell, given you died right now?
I never believed that the Orthodox Church is lying. They sincerely believe what they say.
whether or not they are CORRECT is the issue, not their lack of honesty!
I look at it like this. We KNOW man cannot acheive perfection. He will make mistakes, pretty much in every action he takes. Yet for some reason, we are to believe that a succession of men for 2000 years has NEVER let one iota of error slip in to teachings, and we are led to believe that the passage that states that Hell will not prevail of the Children of God, that we are promised any such thing. Personally, anyone who claims to have it 100% right is immediately suspect, as I know that this si something we cannot acheive.
Yeah I can see your point, having to be like them.. sacrificing themselves for truth...you misunderstand. My goal is not doing things like the ancient Christians. My goal is not acting like them. My goal is Christ, not the early Christians.
Really? So you think your doctrine has a margin of error?We never claimed to have anything 100% correct... and never would.
Forgive me...
Really? So you think your doctrine has a margin of error?
Forgive me, OUSA, but I think that is a bit extreme. I think you are just trying to pander to uphill.
You know the faith of the EC does not deceive and can not be deceived
sigh... you are deliberately missing what I am saying.Yeah I can see your point, having to be like them.. sacrificing themselves for truth...
and I can see how you do not wat to follow the faith they laid down, seeing how 99% of your personal belief would have to change.
UpHIll, false dichotomy- there is no such thing a Christ vrs. ancient Christianity.
so the Orthodox church concedes that something that they are teaching MAY be error? this is the first I've heard of that.Does the RCC claim to be 100% error free in all things concerning Christianity?
Oh wait, yeah I guess they do... it's called infallability.
We have no such doctrine. We accept that we are fallable humans, and rely on Christ's grace to keep us constantly corrected.
Forgive me...
Whoa!If, in fact, Joseph and Mary ever had relations. The majority of Christians believe that Mary and Joseph never did so, and that Joseph was betrothed to Mary to be her guardian, not her lover.
Unless the apostles were in the bedroom with Mary and Joseph, they really have no idea what they were doing.Okay, if you don't want to appeal to majority, how about historicity.....The catholic and Orthodox, who make up the majority of Christianity, can also trace their belief in the perpetual virginity straight to their apostolic origins. That would pretty much makes belief in the existance of Mary and Joseph's sex life a thing of modern innovation.
I'm afraid he's right, actually. The majority of Christians would include Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Anglican (they believe that too, right?) as opposed to the body of Christians that don't believe it to be so.Whoa!
The majority of Christians believe that Joseph and Mary were married, they had children after the birth of Jesus.
This is based on the word of God as written in the Bible. Where most Christians, the vast majority of Christians, get their information about God and what He would have us do and be.
Correction, of the 2.1 billion Christians:Whoa!
The majority of Christians believe that Joseph and Mary were married, they had children after the birth of Jesus.
This is based on the word of God as written in the Bible. Where most Christians, the vast majority of Christians, get their information about God and what He would have us do and be.
Whoa!
The majority of Christians believe that Joseph and Mary were married, they had children after the birth of Jesus.
This is based on the word of God as written in the Bible. Where most Christians, the vast majority of Christians, get their information about God and what He would have us do and be.
beat ya to it, Scott.Correction, of the 2.1 billion Christians:
1.1 billion Catholics
500 million Eastern Orthodox
150 million Anglicans (roughly half)
believe in Mary's Perpetual virginity, not to mention the unknown number of evangelicals who are coming around to this position.
That is about 75% of all Christianity that believes in the PV, so, yes, the MAJORITY of Christians believe what the Church has always beleived, that Mary never had relations with Joseph and Jesus was her only child.
Well, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and King Henry believed it, which takes us to roughly the mid 16th century, making the idea of carnal relations between Joseph and Mary a historically modern phenomenon and, what do you call it,........I'm afraid he's right, actually. The majority of Christians would include Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Anglican (they believe that too, right?) as opposed to the body of Christians that don't believe it to be so.
however, as is has been said, majority belief doesn't equal truth.
The majority of people believed the sun revolved around the earth, at one point.
so the Orthodox church concedes that something that they are teaching MAY be error? this is the first I've heard of that.
x'cept it ain't a doctrine.Well, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and King Henry believed it, which takes us to roughly the mid 16th century, making the idea of carnal relations between Joseph and Mary a historically modern phenomenon and, what do you call it,........Oh ya, a doctrine of men.
Interesting. I shall keep that in mind.Could be... but then, we do our absolute best not to be.
We have disagreements amongst ourselves as well.
As I said, Infallability is not a doctrine of The Orthodox Church.
Forgive me...
and can I be part of the Orthodox church if I DON't believe it? (or, at the very least, hold a reverent agnosticism towards it, holding no strong position on the matter.)In fact, the only thing dogmatically stated about Mary in The Orthodox Church is the fact that she is Theotokos.
Everything else is pious belief not dogma.
Now, I could be wrong and another Orthodox Christian may wish to correct me... but Mary's ever-virginity has not been dogmatically stated by The Orthodox Church. However, I don't know of an Orthodox Christian that denies it either.
Forgive me...
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