Marriage

[KCDAD]

This is not a new idea I'm sure, but I would like to hear opinions and scripture about marriage. I am of the opinion that it is a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP and irrelevant to two people who decide to commit themselves to each other.

 

[Maxwell511]

I am of the opinion that it is a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP and irrelevant to two people who decide to commit themselves to each other.

Me too. The wedding is nice for the folks though.

 

[billwald]

In bible times marriage was an arrainged civil deal between tribes or families. There is no religious marriage in the Bible. Isaac jumped in the sack with Rebecca and they were married.

The Roman govt began registering marriages because Roman citizenship was a valuable minority status. After the Roman govt collapsed the Orthodox Catholic Church assumed some governmental functions thus marriage evolved into a sacrament.

 

[Moros]

I'm for abolishing the current concept of marriage all together. Weddings are fine social events, but the idea of a 'marriage license' and all that nonsense is absolutely appauling to me. Common law 'marriage' should be promoted, if at all, and government should be kicked out of the partnership. Divorce is also an absurd concept. Best to do away with the whole awkward ritual in its entirety.

 

[Maxwell511]

Common law 'marriage' should be promoted, if at all, and government should be kicked out of the partnership.

But doesn't the government have to be involved when there are legal issues involved such as taxation, inheritance, etc?

 

[Sophia7]

In bible times marriage was an arrainged civil deal between tribes or families. There is no religious marriage in the Bible. Isaac jumped in the sack with Rebecca and they were married.

The Roman govt began registering marriages because Roman citizenship was a valuable minority status. After the Roman govt collapsed the Orthodox Catholic Church assumed some governmental functions thus marriage evolved into a sacrament.

I disagree. There was religious marriage in the Bible. Marriage was founded on spiritual principles. Jesus Himself said the following, quoting from Genesis:

Matthew 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,' 5 and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

It is God who joins people in marriage, not the state. The civil aspect of marriage is now considered important for legal reasons, but God ordained marriage and joined Adam and Eve in marriage long before there was ever a need for civil laws. Marriage was fundamental to the religious identity of the people of Israel as well; God even prohibited them from marrying people from the surrounding nations so that they would not be led away from Him and tempted to follow other gods:

Joshua 23:1 After a long time had passed and the LORD had given Israel rest from all their enemies around them, Joshua, by then old and well advanced in years, 2 summoned all Israel--their elders, leaders, judges and officials--and said to them: "I am old and well advanced in years. 3 You yourselves have seen everything the LORD your God has done to all these nations for your sake; it was the LORD your God who fought for you. 4 Remember how I have allotted as an inheritance for your tribes all the land of the nations that remain--the nations I conquered--between the Jordan and the Great Sea in the west. 5 The LORD your God himself will drive them out of your way. He will push them out before you, and you will take possession of their land, as the LORD your God promised you.

6 "Be very strong; be careful to obey all that is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, without turning aside to the right or to the left. 7 Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them. You must not serve them or bow down to them. 8 But you are to hold fast to the LORD your God, as you have until now.

9 "The LORD has driven out before you great and powerful nations; to this day no one has been able to withstand you. 10 One of you routs a thousand, because the LORD your God fights for you, just as he promised. 11 So be very careful to love the LORD your God.

12 "But if you turn away and ally yourselves with the survivors of these nations that remain among you and if you intermarry with them and associate with them, 13 then you may be sure that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the LORD your God has given you.

Also, people in Bible times had weddings. In fact, they had elaborate ceremonies, with lavishly adorned brides, and feasts that lasted for several days. They did not just hop into bed and that was it. There was the negotiating of a bride price beforehand, but marriage was more than just a civil contract. It was a sacred covenant, not to be entered into lightly and not to be broken.

Here is one more text, in which God describes marriage as a covenant that binds people both physically and spiritually:

Malachi 2:11 Judah has broken faith. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the LORD loves, by marrying the daughter of a foreign god. 12 As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the LORD cut him off from the tents of Jacob--even though he brings offerings to the LORD Almighty.

13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.

So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.

God also used the marriage covenant as an illustration to point out Israel's unfaithfulness (see Ezekiel 16). It was a fitting parallel because both the marriage covenant and the covenant between God and Israel involved sacred vows and promises that could not simply be broken at will. They were spiritually binding.

Marriage is first and foremost, according to the Bible, a spiritual joining of a man and a woman by God before they also become "one flesh," regardless of whatever civil agreements might also be involved. Sex or cohabitation or common-law marriage or whatever you want to call it does not equal biblical marriage.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

But doesn't the government have to be involved when there are legal issues involved such as taxation, inheritance, etc?

i think that as for the taxation issue, the government should grant a civil union to anyone who applies for one. i think that there should be no civil "marriage." its ridiculous. Let the churches and individuals do whatever marriage they want. If one denomination or particualr church wants to allow gay marriage, then let them perform the ceremony. If a group doesn't want them, then they don't have to.


as far as inheritance goes, the government shouldn't be involved at all. let people make their own decisions- they can say who can visit them in the hospital, who gets their stuff after they die, etc.


civil unions for taxation purposes for anyone if it is really that important to change taxes for couples. marriage for whoever wants it from whoever will grant it.

 

[fillerbunny]

This is not a new idea I'm sure, but I would like to hear opinions and scripture about marriage. I am of the opinion that it is a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP and irrelevant to two people who decide to commit themselves to each other.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the 'legal partnership' aspect, but I wouldn't say it's entirely irrelevant, given all the civil rights and protections that go along with it.

Irrelevant in terms of the relationship itself, perhaps.. but not in terms of the rights it affords.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

You know what? I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how the Bible and God define marriage if you don't follow Him. My marriage is a legal partnership on paper, but I would prefer that legal union be called something else other than marriage. What I consider to be my actual marriage has nothing to do with the government and taxation etc. It has to do with my life long commitment to my spouce in the presence of God. Looking back both my husband and myself considered ourselves married long before we were legally married.

 

[Mr. QWERTY]

You know what? I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how the Bible and God define marriage if you don't follow Him. My marriage is a legal partnership on paper, but I would prefer that legal union be called something else other than marriage. What I consider to be my actual marriage has nothing to do with the government and taxation etc. It has to do with my life long commitment to my spouce in the presence of God. Looking back both my husband and myself considered ourselves married long before we were legally married.

I agree to everything except the god bits. Marriage is a commitment to my spouse in the presence of family and friends.

 

[Merlin]

Marriage originated with Genesis, chapter 2
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

So, It's a point of God creating a suitable helper for a man, a woman. And the two then become one.

 

[KCDAD]

Marriage originated with Genesis, chapter 2

Hmmm, no contract, no ceremony, no rings, no minister... no vows... how is this the same thing we call marriage?

 

[Merlin]

Hmmm, no contract, no ceremony, no rings, no minister... no vows... how is this the same thing we call marriage?

Just God bringing together a man with a woman for a lifetime.

 

[outlaw]

Marriage originated with Genesis, chapter 2
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

So, It's a point of God creating a suitable helper for a man, a woman. And the two then become one.

And marriage gets redefined in Genesis 4:19
And again in Genesis 16
And again in Genesis 21:10
And again in Genesis 38:6-10
And again in Numbers 31:1-18
And again in Deuteronomy 21:11-14
And again in Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Marriage originated with Genesis, chapter 2
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

So, It's a point of God creating a suitable helper for a man, a woman. And the two then become one.

Do you actually believe that all women are to be are "helpers" to their man? That somehow women are *gasp* not equal to men...in a marriage CONTRACT?

I'm sorry but this is the 21st century. Don't give modern women that load of crap.

Its funny..if you read Jewish legend you find out about Adam's first "wife" Lillith...no wonder she high-tailed it out of there....

Anyway, Just because Adam and Eve shacked up doesn't mean "God joined them" so its a "religious marriage".

As far as Adam knew Eve was the only woman on earth. I guess in that situation you kinda take what you can get. Its clear to me through out history that marriages have been arrainged-family to family-tribe to tribe-and then later royal house to royal house. If you want traditional marriage love doesn't enter into it most of the time. It was purely a legal merger, and still can be.


Back to the OP:
My love for my husband is not contigent on a piece of paper. If they dissolved all marriages right now, we'd stay together.

Sometimes we wished we had just waited untill common-law took effect, but having the ceremony was nice..(but a headache.)

So I guess I agree with you...

OOF DA!

 

[Sophia7]

I cannot believe that people read this and believe it... And then look at Greek or Native American myths and think that it's a stupid story or an ignorant myth. The difference between "Women are made from a rib to be men's helpers" and "the world is carried on a turtles back and lightning bolts are from Zeus who's angry" is negligable.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I happen to believe that the Bible is true, not just myth. And the OP asked for scriptural references about marriage, so that is what many people are giving. Also, keep in mind that this thread began in GT, which is a Christians-only section, and was moved here, where anyone can post. Obviously, Christians who take the Genesis account literally have different beliefs about marriage than Wiccans or Buddhists or atheists or whatever.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Well hell I guess Christians who aren't young earth creationists and do NOT take Genesis literally have much different beliefs about marriage or whatever...

And really there is nothing different about the Christian story or bible than any other mythos. It was written as a way of explaining the unknown...what are most creation myths?

And obviously there was a reason it was moved from the "Christians-Only" section...so as to get a wider range of ideas...so now its in the all members section. You're gonna hear other views than just "christian". So keep in mind that.

 

[Sophia7]

Well hell I guess Christians who aren't young earth creationists and do NOT take Genesis literally have much different beliefs about marriage or whatever...

Actually, yes, many of them do. The whole idea of God's creating a literal Eve from the literal rib of a literal Adam and then literally joining them in marriage Himself, which Jesus later quoted and said, "What God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:6), puts a different spin on the origin of marriage--its institution by God and the whole reason for its existence--and its definition and continuing relevance in today's culture (which was the question of the OP).

And really there is nothing different about the Christian story or bible than any other mythos. It was written as a way of explaining the unknown...what are most creation myths?

I disagree, but this is a topic for another thread.

And obviously there was a reason it was moved from the "Christians-Only" section...so as to get a wider range of ideas...so now its in the all members section. You're gonna hear other views than just "christian". So keep in mind that.

I understand that. I was not saying that people shouldn't comment here if they don't have a Christian viewpoint. My point was simply that since the OP asked for scriptural views, people are going to give them. That is why I think this thread was more appropriate for the Christians-only section because that was the originally intended audience. If I were asking a question on this topic in this forum, I would phrase it diffently to invite discussion from non-Christians and not specifically ask for scriptural evidence.

As I said, those who are not Christians are free to believe whatever they want and to post their beliefs here. I just think that debates on the mythical or truthful nature of the Bible and ancient creation narratives would be better suited to other threads because that was not the point of the OP.

 

[KCDAD]

I was interested in hearing how one uses the scriptures to justify marriage. I see the reference in Genesis that man and woman belong together... ok. I see in Genesis that woman is a subservient creature to man, having been created from him. I see woman's job is to be a helper to man. I see Ruth and Boaz, Abraham and his sons and their dysfunctional families... where exactly does it talk about fidelity, monogamy, contracts and life long committment and inheritance and alimony?

 

[Sophia7]

I was interested in hearing how one uses the scriptures to justify marriage. I see the reference in Genesis that man and woman belong together... ok. I see in Genesis that woman is a subservient creature to man, having been created from him. I see woman's job is to be a helper to man. I see Ruth and Boaz, Abraham and his sons and their dysfunctional families... where exactly does it talk about fidelity, monogamy, contracts and life long committment and inheritance and alimony?

I believe that women became viewed as subservient to men only as a result of sin and that the woman's being called a "helper" at creation did not equal a role as a servant or an oppressed slave to a man's every whim. I don't think that God ever intended men to lord their authority over women or to view them as inferior, as has happened throughout most of the history of humanity.

As far as marriage being a lifelong commitment that requires fidelity, I think that Jesus said it pretty well:

Matthew 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,' 5 and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Paul also had a few things to say about marriage:

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

17 Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.

1 Corinthians 7:39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

Polygamy is another issue, which is not specifically condemned by God in the OT although we do see many examples of the negative consequences of it (such as in the stories of Jacob and David and especially Solomon, whose many wives turned his heart away from God). I don't believe that God ever intended it or approved of it. And we see in the NT that one of the requirements for overseers/deacons/elders in the church was that they had only one wife.