Marriage without a license.....

[bèlla]

But wouldn't a relationship that consisted of a long period of cohabitation also have the potential to turn nasty? What is it about being married that makes that potential nastiness worse?

Money.

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

People can do what they want I guess. I just see marriage as going through all the doors; if you leave a escape door open for "when and if you need to get divorced or leave because all men or women are scum" then it's not that great of a relationship. If you get married and then decide to not be married; it should be a bit messy legally and otherwise to walk away. And getting married with a plan to end it neatly if needed someday is just weird to me. I dunno; just not something I would do.

Eta: I would imagine that courts are pro children in these instances. So if you are making babies with someone and playing house THEN decide to walk away ; you are still legally responsible for the babies you made and you could be legally responsible for child support even if you weren't legally married . So arrangements like these don't provide a nice clean break if there are children involved .

Would you say signing a pre nup is just another aspect of being prepared for a failed marriage?

 

[Citanul]

Money.

What would the differences in terms of money be? I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here as I've never been in either type of relationship, but there would still be a financial aspect to the relationship whether they're married or not.

 

[bèlla]

What would the differences in terms of money be? I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here as I've never been in either type of relationship, but there would still be a financial aspect to the relationship whether they're married or not.

The following is true for the U.S.

The difference is the absence of legal recognition of the union. The lone exception are couples residing in community property states which apply different rules after a specific time together (for example nine years).

If the relationship ends in these states, you request for a division of assets in court. But if you live elsewhere (most states don’t have that rule) none of that applies. Save, joint investments like real estate. You’re not getting alimony or a living allowance.

In the eyes of the law, the couple is cohabitating and wouldn’t receive the legal benefits or protection a marriage license provides. On the other hand, the major gripe of men in our country is the financial hit they take when getting divorced.

The prevailing thought for many is marriage benefits women more than men. Most feel the court is strongly biased in their favor. While prenups are an option, they can be broken (and have in many instances).

A civil ceremony devoid of legal entanglements would be heavily favored by men. He’d have no fear of losing his shirt if they split. If the union produces children, she’s entitled to child support.

~Bella

 

[Citanul]

The following is true for the U.S.

The difference is the absence of legal recognition of the union. The lone exception are couples residing in community property states which apply different rules after a specific time together (for example nine years).

If the relationship ends in these states, you request for a division of assets in court. But if you live elsewhere (most states don’t have that rule) none of that applies. Save, joint investments like real estate. You’re not getting alimony or a living allowance.

In the eyes of the law, the couple is cohabitating and wouldn’t receive the legal benefits or protection a marriage license provides. On the other hand, the major gripe of men in our country is the financial hit they take when getting divorced.

The prevailing thought for many is marriage benefits women more than men. Most feel the court is strongly biased in their favor. While prenups are an option, they can be broken (and have in many instances).

A civil ceremony devoid of legal entanglements would be heavily favored by men. He’d have no fear of losing his shirt if they split. If the union produces children, she’s entitled to child support.

~Bella

Thanks. I thought it might be something like that.

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but the idea of not getting married to avoid that does come across a little like someone saying, "I don't want to get married so I would need to bother with child support if we do split up."

 

[bèlla]

Maybe I'm being too cynical here, but the idea of not getting married to avoid that does come across a little like someone saying, "I don't want to get married so I can avoid having to provide child support if we do split up."

Your cynicism is understandable. Many feel women are given too much money in divorce proceedings. Even when the resources are for their children.

Some are opting to become house husbands. I’ve seen a few men mention it on the site. They plan to stay home and let her be the breadwinner.

~Bella

 

[Citanul]

Your cynicism is understandable. Many feel women are given too much money in divorce proceedings. Even when the resources are for their children.

I do wonder whether the feelings that women are given too much money are often intertwined with bitterness around the divorce, but I've got no way of knowing whether that might be the case. But not getting married so that you have the option of not giving any money at all doesn't seem right to me.

 

[blackribbon]

I know that in Texas, a community property state, that even representing yourself as married can make you married and grant the same rights as getting married. It probably takes a minute to prove but all rights related to divorce can be given in a male/female cohabitation situation. And all property and money acquired while together belongs equally to both partners.

 

[bèlla]

I do wonder whether the feelings that women are given too much money are often intertwined with bitterness around the divorce, but I've got no way of knowing whether that might be the case. But not getting married so that you have the option of not giving any money at all doesn't seem right to me.

I think they are. But that’s merely another manifestation of the idea that women are out to get them. Some expect to be taken advantage of or exploited. Eventually, they see women as the cause of their hardships.

I believe a balanced approach is recognizing your mistakes and accepting responsibility for your contribution to its demise. But blame is easier I suppose.

Although people often say, don’t talk about your ex. That’s a good way to observe how the person handles problems. In most instances, the response you hear is the one you’ll get later on.

~Bella

 

[Elliewaves]

Would you say signing a pre nup is just another aspect of being prepared for a failed marriage?

Sure; that's what aprenuptial actually is: you are preparing your assets for protection in the event your marriage fails. I think it's needed if you have substantial personal or family wealth or have stock in a family owned business or property, or children from another relationship , but for the average person it's just going into marriage with a back door plan for failure .

 

[Sir Robbins]

But wouldn't a relationship that consisted of a long period of cohabitation also have the potential to turn nasty? What is it about being married that makes that potential nastiness worse?

in the event of divorce, it can be terribly more expensive and leave say "a man back in a one bedroom apartment at age 50 with his savings taken from him". I had a friend divorce and his ex took his house kids and dogs and left him with $10k. She said he could have his 2 dogs back for $5k a piece..... he refused and she sold them even though the kids loved them because she knew he loved them too and that bothered her....

I do video depositions for divorce attorneys and have seen some awful things...

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Sure; that's what aprenuptial actually is: you are preparing your assets for protection in the event your marriage fails. I think it's needed if you have substantial personal or family wealth or have stock in a family owned business or property, or children from another relationship , but for the average person it's just going into marriage with a back door plan for failure .

So, as a Christian...would it be UN-Christian to go for a pre nup?

 

[ThisIsMe123]

in the event of divorce, it can be terribly more expensive and leave say "a man back in a one bedroom apartment at age 50 with his savings taken from him". I had a friend divorce and his ex took his house kids and dogs and left him with $10k. She said he could have his 2 dogs back for $5k a piece..... he refused and she sold them even though the kids loved them because she knew he loved them too and that bothered her....

I do video depositions for divorce attorneys and have seen some awful things...

I have to ask, why is it that the MEN seem to be the ones that are always shafted in the divorce.

Ive been told, the one who has the best lawyer wins

 

[Citanul]

Again asking from ignorance, do all divorces end up in court? Or is it possible to have an amicable agreement without having to appear before a judge? If court's not necessary then not getting married to avoid the financial burden of divorce sounds a lot like "we're not getting married because we're going to be nasty to each other when we divorce", which is a rather pessimistic view.

And how many men do get taken to the cleaners in a divorce? Is it the majority or is it that there's a lot of noise made about when it does happen, making it seem that the problem's bigger than it is? If the former then surely the system needs to be looked at?

If the latter then the answer is don't get divorced. Which I realise is a very simplistic statement as people change and things do happen and it's not necessarily the man's fault. But given that most marriages don't end in divorce (the oft-quoted 50% statistic is not correct), if someone does get divorced then it's very possible that they did something wrong and it could have been prevented if they'd made an effort.

 

[Citanul]

I have to ask, why is it that the MEN seem to be the ones that are always shafted in the divorce.

Do they or do they just shout the loudest because it helps the MGTOW/incel narrative that women are evil? (well maybe not the incels in this case because their beef is that they're not getting married)

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Do they or do they just shout the loudest because it helps the MGTOW/incel narrative that women are evil? (well maybe not the incels in this case because their beef is that they're not getting married)

It's only happenstance that it fulfills some sort of narrative. But it is true that it's mostly the courts that favor the women and the men get screwed. I'm sure there are outliers where it happens the other way around.

If the latter then the answer is don't get divorced.

Try telling the women that as it's usually the women that want out of the marriage, than the men. Reconciliation is not an option with some of the women who want out either. Their minds are made up and things are in motion.

It's no wonder men want to protect their assets in case they come home to only a table and chair one day.

Can't say that I blame them for wanting that pre-nup at the very least. I know devout Christians that will NOT marry without a pre-nup.

Sorry to make this a man/woman thing, but it's true.

 

[Citanul]

It's only happenstance that it fulfills some sort of narrative. But it is true that it's mostly the courts that favor the women and the men get screwed. I'm sure there are outliers where it happens the other way around.

Yeah, I was still thinking about my previous post and my ended up posting something which wasn't really a response to what you said.

Try telling the women that as it's usually the women that want out of the marriage, than the men. Reconciliation is not an option with some of the women who want out either. Their minds are made up and things are in motion.

But the women don't wake up one day and decided that they're going to get divorced. There are things that have led up to it, and while sometimes there was nothing that could have been done to prevent those things from happening, in many cases something could have been done.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Yeah, I was still thinking about my previous post and my ended up posting something which wasn't really a response to what you said.



But the women don't wake up one day and decided that they're going to get divorced. There are things that have led up to it, and while sometimes there was nothing that could have been done to prevent those things from happening, in many cases something could have been done.

VEry good point...the otherside of the story is this is mainly due to the fact that, let's say, and I think this is MOST common....that the husband "stopped dating his wife". He killed the romance. It's like "once you catch the train, there's no point anymore in pursuing".

There is still upkeep when it comes to courting your wife.

And it wasn't necessarily cheating, addictions or anything. It's that he had become complacent in the marriage.

What's intersting is the guy comes home to a Dear John letter, and he's telling all his friends, "I just came home one day, and her bags were packed..." scratching his head, not being able to figure out what happened.

 

[Niels]

VEry good point...the otherside of the story is this is mainly due to the fact that, let's say, and I think this is MOST common....that the husband "stopped dating his wife". He killed the romance. It's like "once you catch the train, there's no point anymore in pursuing".

There is still upkeep when it comes to courting your wife.

And it wasn't necessarily cheating, addictions or anything. It's that he had become complacent in the marriage.

What's intersting is the guy comes home to a Dear John letter, and he's telling all his friends, "I just came home one day, and her bags were packed..." scratching his head, not being able to figure out what happened.

It sounds to me like they weren't communicating. If she needed to feel pursued, then she should have said so in a way that he understood. Apparently that didn't happen, if he didn't see it coming. It's important to make one's spouse feel desirable and loved, but many marry, in part, so they don't have to "pursue" or "be pursued" anymore. They want to feel secure in their marriage, not precarious. This kind of thing needs to be discussed, however unromantic it may seem at the time, and put it all out on the table so both are on similar pages if not the same page.

 

[Elliewaves]

So, as a Christian...would it be UN-Christian to go for a pre nup?

not necessarily ; but I do think it's a bad attitude to possess starting out in a marriage to focus on what will happen when it ends before it even starts. If you can't trust the person you are marrying then it's probably not that great of a relationship . Jmo