Marriage without a license.....

[ThisIsMe123]

not necessarily ; but I do think it's a bad attitude to possess starting out in a marriage to focus on what will happen when it ends before it even starts. If you can't trust the person you are marrying then it's probably not that great of a relationship . Jmo

I think someone thinking "what could happen" is predicated how many divorces do occur, even *drumroll* CHRISTIAN marriages.

When someone has close friends and families ending up in divorce, it's a reaction to the stimuli that would cause ANYONE considering marriage would take these measures. People can change like the wind.

I knew of a married couple that married in their early 20s, by their early 30s, they were two completley different people, with completely different set of belief systems, and so on. They did a complete 180 in their personalities.

Sometimes friends are totally blindsided, "Holy crap! Beth and Eddie are divorcing??!! They were like TWO peas in a pod! Never saw THAT one coming"

When you are seeing people being surprised at a couples' divorce, that's quite telling.

 

[bèlla]

Do they or do they just shout the loudest because it helps the MGTOW/incel narrative that women are evil? (well maybe not the incels in this case because their beef is that they're not getting married)

Many MGTOW supporters have gone through nasty divorces or relational issues. I’ve talked to several. I don’t agree with their position or its extremes. But I’ve never married or had to turn over half my assets. I might feel differently walking in their shoes.

Interestingly, most men don’t ask for prenups. In spite of the rhetoric and court bias frequently mentioned. They trust their partner.

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Many MGTOW supporters have gone through nasty divorces or relational issues. I’ve talked to several. I don’t agree with their position or its extremes. But I’ve never married or had to turn over half my assets. I might feel differently walking in their shoes.

Interestingly, most men don’t ask for prenups. In spite of the rhetoric and court bias frequently mentioned. They trust their partner.

~Bella

Wow, that is actually good news. You, LaBella, have restored my faith in humanity. :-D

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Many MGTOW supporters have gone through nasty divorces or relational issues. I’ve talked to several. I don’t agree with their position or its extremes. But I’ve never married or had to turn over half my assets. I might feel differently walking in their shoes.


~Bella

Speaking of which...a writer and lesbian, Nora Vincent, did an undercover thing to live like a heterosexual male.

A Self-Made Man

I watched it, and there was a significant and interesting thing, and disturbing, thing she found when she joined a group of men on some kind of men-only excursion.

She actually empathized with them, even sympathized with men's frustrations in women. Some were outright hateful things said about their wives.

She tried approaching women in coffee shops, only to be met with disdain. When these ladies were interviewed after it was all over and were told she Nora was a lesbian, they said, "Yeah, when she approached me, I was like "Crap not again...I just want to be left in peace!"

 

[bèlla]

I don’t believe I’m entitled to assets I didn’t build or assist my spouse in making. I feel all monies brought into the marriage are off the table. And I expect him to take the necessary legal steps to ensure his business is covered if he’s self-employed. Ideally, we’d undertake the process together.

Marriages have their ups and downs. I have no interest in threatening someone’s livelihood or grabbing resources they’ve built or received from others. It’s wrong.

I view prenups beyond monetary distribution. They’re a disaster maintenance plan. I would address separation in my planning. It’s easier to reach an amicable agreement when things are calm.

No one can foretell what the future holds. I can’t naively state we’ll never struggle, face disappointments, or hurt each other. I prefer a reasonable way of handling the upsets peaceably.

~Bella

 

[Sir Robbins]

But the women don't wake up one day and decided that they're going to get divorced. There are things that have led up to it, and while sometimes there was nothing that could have been done to prevent those things from happening, in many cases something could have been done.

I would disagree with this on a substantial level. The number of women who divorce simply because they no longer want to be married is quite staggering. (no fault divorce) A former coworker of mine went on a 2 week vacation to Italy with his wife of 32 years. He was part time getting close to retirement and 1 year from paying his mortgage off. After the vacation, she served him with divorce papers. He was beside himself and we were stunned. Her reason? She just didn't like being married anymore and fulfilling obligations that marriage requires. She got 1/4 his retirement and his house (even though his kids are all grown and moved out except one and she used that one still living there to her leverage). She wanted to remain close friends but after how that divorce played out, he can't fathom how.

Now, this may be an exception and a rather drastic one but the fact these happen is a scary thought. We know infidelity is wild these days and most women get cheated on when they're pregnant (believe it or not, this is one big reason my generation "millennials" aren't having kids). Fear of infidelity.

 

[Citanul]

She actually empathized with them, even sympathized with men's frustrations in women. Some were outright hateful things said about their wives.

Although wouldn't she have only been getting one side of the story?

 

[Sir Robbins]

VEry good point...the otherside of the story is this is mainly due to the fact that, let's say, and I think this is MOST common....that the husband "stopped dating his wife". He killed the romance. It's like "once you catch the train, there's no point anymore in pursuing".

There is still upkeep when it comes to courting your wife.

And it wasn't necessarily cheating, addictions or anything. It's that he had become complacent in the marriage.

John Piper would disagree with these statements.... I found the article from Desiring God but Piper explicitly speaks that romance and love are not the reasons for marriage. Marriage is about honoring the covenant set by God that was designed to be a reflection of Christ and the church.

I Feel No Sexual Attraction — Should I Still Pursue Marriage?

 

[Citanul]

Now, this may be an exception and a rather drastic one but the fact these happen is a scary thought.

I did say that sometimes there was nothing that could have been done, so this could have been one of them. It doesn't change my point that it's not always out of the blue with no underlying cause that could have been remedied.

We know infidelity is wild these days and most women get cheated on when they're pregnant

That's quite the claim. Do you have a reference for it?

 

[Sir Robbins]

I did say that sometimes there was nothing that could have been done, so this could have been one of them. It doesn't change my point that it's not always out of the blue with no underlying cause that could have been remedied.



That's quite the claim. Do you have a reference for it?

my reference are many of my close friends who had to go through with it..... I personally witnessed it (not in the graphic sense) but talked with female friends who were now bearing the issue of being cheated on while they were pregnant. Many aren't married but some are.

 

[bèlla]

Speaking of which...a writer and lesbian, Nora Vincent, did an undercover thing to live like a heterosexual male.

Thank you for sharing this.

She actually empathized with them, even sympathized with men's frustrations in women. Some were outright hateful things said about their wives.

I’ve heard many confessions from both sexes. I listen and empathize. My goal is helping them to move beyond the hurt and anger. Oftentimes, the person is walled and expects to be maimed. So they beat you to the punch. Mirroring can help them to recognize the fallacy of that approach.

”Yeah, when she approached me, I was like "Crap not again...I just want to be left in peace!"

Some people are friendlier than others. If someone is pleasant and strikes up a conversation I’m happy to participate if I’m not occupied. But when you find yourself getting annoyed; introspection is needed.

My accommodation has a clear division. I don’t think that gives me a right to mistreat men who fall outside that circle. I can be polite and kind. They have feelings like the next.

~Bella

 

[kittysbecute]

my reference are many of my close friends who had to go through with it..... I personally witnessed it (not in the graphic sense) but talked with female friends who were now bearing the issue of being cheated on while they were pregnant. Many aren't married but some are.

None of my close friends were cheated on when they were pregnant. So, based on that, I could say “no one cheats on pregnant women.”?
I’m sure it happens... but “most” is not true.

 

[bèlla]

John Piper would disagree with these statements.... I found the article from Desiring God but Piper explicitly speaks that romance and love are not the reasons for marriage. Marriage is about honoring the covenant set by God that was designed to be a reflection of Christ and the church.

Principle and reality aren’t always kinsmen. How many marriages have you observed with that philosophy as its root?

Like it or not, most people don’t welcome a life of duty devoid of joy. And the majority don’t enter marriages for the reasons Piper states. They’re not that selfless.

I read his book on marriage. I get what he’s saying. But I have one shot at life and plan to make the most of it. Marriage without love or physical intimacy is out of the question.

~Bella

 

[bèlla]

Most men don’t cheat on their partners when they’re pregnant. Those who do have probably done so long ago. It isn’t the lone occurrence.

That wasn’t my experience nor the women I know or those I’m related to.

~Bella

 

[Elliewaves]

I think someone thinking "what could happen" is predicated how many divorces do occur, even *drumroll* CHRISTIAN marriages.

When someone has close friends and families ending up in divorce, it's a reaction to the stimuli that would cause ANYONE considering marriage would take these measures. People can change like the wind.

I knew of a married couple that married in their early 20s, by their early 30s, they were two completley different people, with completely different set of belief systems, and so on. They did a complete 180 in their personalities.

Sometimes friends are totally blindsided, "Holy crap! Beth and Eddie are divorcing??!! They were like TWO peas in a pod! Never saw THAT one coming"

When you are seeing people being surprised at a couples' divorce, that's quite telling.

Well sure, it's understandable why some people fear marriage or the opposite gender even Christians. But, it all goes back to don't get married then if you are convinced that all men or all women just want to use you or are evil. If you can't trust the individual you want to marry or you can't trust the opposite gender as a whole , either work on yourself and get some therapy to move past that BEFORE marrying someone, or remain single and celibate, or remain single and be clear and upfront with your intentions and live in immorality but learn how to be effective in your use of birth control. Marriage is a risk; find the person you want to risk it with and be committed to making it work; or just stay single if someone can't handle the risk.

 

[Sir Robbins]

Principle and reality aren’t always kinsmen. How many marriages have you observed with that philosophy as its root?

Like it or not, most people don’t welcome a life of duty devoid of joy. And the majority don’t enter marriages for the reasons Piper states. They’re not that selfless.

I read his book on marriage. I get what he’s saying. But I have one shot at life and plan to make the most of it. Marriage without love or physical intimacy is out of the question.

~Bella

very few if any I have observed.... Piper generally lives in a different world when I read his articles. He seems like a dinosaur at times...

 

[bèlla]

very few if any I have observed.... Piper generally lives in a different world when I read his articles. He seems like a dinosaur at times...

Most people don’t enter marriage with that mindset. They discover the spiritual elements over time. I see the union as mutual entrustment. Ministry to the body and society is one facet of our purpose. But it isn’t the only one.

Sanctification unfolds throughout the relationship. ‘We’ is a precursor to ‘us.’ Otherwise, you’re speaking hypothetically and grounded on what you’d do rather than what you’re doing. Facts make stronger witnesses than suppositions.

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Principle and reality aren’t always kinsmen. How many marriages have you observed with that philosophy as its root?

Like it or not, most people don’t welcome a life of duty devoid of joy. And the majority don’t enter marriages for the reasons Piper states. They’re not that selfless.

I read his book on marriage. I get what he’s saying. But I have one shot at life and plan to make the most of it. Marriage without love or physical intimacy is out of the question.

~Bella

LaBella,

It kind of makes you wonder about those that side with Piper are unfeeling cads.

 

[bèlla]

LaBella,

It kind of makes you wonder about those that side with Piper are unfeeling cads.

No, they aren’t. Their disposition lends a seriousness and rigidity others lack. There’s nothing wrong with that. It has its rightful place in the body.

We need diverse approaches because we’re fashioned differently. If our vision is limited we can’t minister to society effectively and that’s the goal.

Piper and I share the same aim: a godly marriage that honors the Lord.

But we go about it differently. Marriage for me means someone who knocks my socks off and I rock his world. It means looking at him with starry-eyed wonder and swooning quite a bit. It means living our faith and the word through yummy meals and fun-filled gatherings.

It means loving my man...supporting...praising...and honoring him through my work, connections, and disposition. My messy, beautiful, married life must be relatable. And I’ve found that’s easiest through knowing than belief.

I’ve taken the concept and brought it down to earth. I communicate it through simple language that’s appropriate for different audiences.

We need authentic expressions. Not another clone. If tradition whets your whistle; don’t change! If you’re progressive and attract others like you; keep it up!

Piper isn’t wrong. His message is meant for a certain demographic. As are most. The one that speaks loudest to you will resonate with the people you need to reach.

~Bella

 

[blackribbon]

I have to ask, why is it that the MEN seem to be the ones that are always shafted in the divorce.

Ive been told, the one who has the best lawyer wins

Women tend to go to a lower economic bracket after getting divorced. I don't know that men are the ones always shafted. I haven't seen it.