Marriage in Trouble

[Drew1986]

I am hoping that I can seek Godly council for my situation. This may be long so I apologize. I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran and have been married to my wife for a year and a half. My wife was an evangelical and converted to the LCMS before we were married. She is from out of state so she stayed here for our marriage since she was already here for graduate school. We both come from broken homes.

To try to be brief, 5 months into our marriage I accidently came accross an email draft that my wife was going to send to her ex-boyfriend that had been continuously trying to "get back together" with her since the beginning of our relationship. From the very beginning I told her that it would be best for our relationship if she just stopped responding to his advances. She agreed and as far as I was aware it stopped happening. When I confronted her about whether or not she had been in contact with him she lied and told me no. When I brought up the draft she then admitted that she had been text-messaging him. For some reason, I didn't ask to see the conversation, I just requested that she confess this to our pastor and hoped that that would be the end of it. I told nobody in the family because I thought it would be undignified to drag her name through the mud and make my friends and family suspicious of her. She promised it would never happen again and she changed her number and deleted her email. We got on with our marriage and I did my best to trust her and put it behind me.

During thanksgiving we were at her parents and with some of her friends. We were watching a movie, and she laid her head in the lap of one of her guy friends...right in front of me, for about a half an hour. He was giving her a massage and putting his hands all over her. I did not say anything at the time as I did not want to cause a scene. She still swears it was completely innocent, and that "I would understand if I knew him". I am now trying to get past this, and nothing I do is helping. I feel I cannot trust her.

There are also many more issues starting to surface now. I am about to finish my undergraduate degree and head to seminary this fall, but my wife now is having second thoughts, and "can't promise she won't leave me if I can't trust her". She is all over the place regarding her faith. One month she is all about the church and can't wait to go to seminary and reassuring me this is what she wants, and now she has no clue if she even wants to be married to me. We have been meeting with our pastor who has us in a "therapeutic separation" to try to work out these differences but has, in my oppinion, been very lax toward my wife for threatening to break her vow. He has not applied the law at all. She is saying now that she has "hopes and dreams" of traveling the world, getting her PhD in social work, and feels limited in the LCMS because she "can't go to other churches" and we are too "limiting". She is upset that I cannot in good conscience support her attending other churches to supplement her Lutheran church life. When I bring up the scriptures to show her why, she claims I am "putting her down" and that "I think I am always right".

She knew the kind of life I wanted to pursue before we got married and she agreed, and now she completely flipped the script. I am far from a perfect husband, but I feel I am in limbo with no Idea what to do. We start marriage counseling next tuesday. I called and asked her if seeing the conversation she had with her ex would help me to have closure and move on from it, then she would let me see it. She adamently refused and said "I don't trust her" and I need to pray to "get over it". I feel that she is hiding something there. Am I being unreasonable? Any words of advice would be appreciated.


Pax,

Drew

 

[cerette]

Sorry to hear you are going through this difficulty!

I think you should have "caused a scene" when she was cuddling with that other guy. Some nerve to do that in front of her husband, and the same goes for that other guy! Unbelievable! If it was as innocent as she says, then you would have known it and wouldn't have needed to even think twice--sort of like if she hugged her brother or cousin..you probably wouldn't even notice let alone worry about it, because it would be a normal thing to do (hug a brother or cousin)..

Perhaps you guys got married a bit too soon...maybe you should have gotten to know each other better before marrying..but now that you are married you'll have to go from there.. I think counseling is a good start..and my opinion is that if your wife has nothing to hide she should and would be willing to show you her texts with her ex...etc..

She is your wife. You have a right to see and ask about her communications with other men, especially when you know that she has already lied to you!

I would also encourage your wife to attend some basic Bible class--learning about Lutheranism starting with the very basics...sounds like she didn't really know what Lutheran beliefs are when she joined the church.

I feel bad for you and I hope everything will work out!

I'm not perfect or anything but this much I know: I do not hide my communications with other men from my husband. I have been in contact with people "from my past" and I have told my husband about it, I have let him read the e-mails, because I do not want to hide things, and there was nothing worth hiding in the first place!! I have recently made some guy friends (Dads at a preschool) because our kids play together, and we will sometimes grab a coffee...I immediately told my husband their names etc so that there would be no reason for misunderstandings or worry down the road...Both my husband and I also keep our cell phones "openly", there is no hiding going on..I sometimes get texts from those male friends and I don't mind if my husband reads them,,but if I was hiding my phone I am sure those texts would sound odd.."10 AM tmrw at the regular place?" !!!!!!! This is what I am trying to say: Be open, be honest, don't hide things. There is no need to hide anything if you're honest and don't cheat.

 

[Drew1986]

Thank you for the kind words, Cerette. This whole situation is pretty ugly. As far as us getting married too soon, that may be the case. We only dated about a year before tying the knot. However, we did not cohabitate before we were married so I think you can really only know so much about someone before you move in together. We both come from pretty bad divorced families. My Dad left my mom for anohter woman, her mom left her dad when she decided she was a lesbian and met another woman. Obviously, that effected us pretty deeply. I just think something is off. She says that God wouldn't want her to be in an unhappy marriage and refuses to be in one. Every time I try to reason with her it gets nowhere, she is convinced that is the case because she "feels that way".

 

[MDIVGRAD]

I am hoping that I can seek Godly council for my situation. This may be long so I apologize. I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran and have been married to my wife for a year and a half. My wife was an evangelical and converted to the LCMS before we were married. She is from out of state so she stayed here for our marriage since she was already here for graduate school. We both come from broken homes.

To try to be brief, 5 months into our marriage I accidently came accross an email draft that my wife was going to send to her ex-boyfriend that had been continuously trying to "get back together" with her since the beginning of our relationship. From the very beginning I told her that it would be best for our relationship if she just stopped responding to his advances. She agreed and as far as I was aware it stopped happening. When I confronted her about whether or not she had been in contact with him she lied and told me no. When I brought up the draft she then admitted that she had been text-messaging him. For some reason, I didn't ask to see the conversation, I just requested that she confess this to our pastor and hoped that that would be the end of it. I told nobody in the family because I thought it would be undignified to drag her name through the mud and make my friends and family suspicious of her. She promised it would never happen again and she changed her number and deleted her email. We got on with our marriage and I did my best to trust her and put it behind me.

During thanksgiving we were at her parents and with some of her friends. We were watching a movie, and she laid her head in the lap of one of her guy friends...right in front of me, for about a half an hour. He was giving her a massage and putting his hands all over her. I did not say anything at the time as I did not want to cause a scene. She still swears it was completely innocent, and that "I would understand if I knew him". I am now trying to get past this, and nothing I do is helping. I feel I cannot trust her.

There are also many more issues starting to surface now. I am about to finish my undergraduate degree and head to seminary this fall, but my wife now is having second thoughts, and "can't promise she won't leave me if I can't trust her". She is all over the place regarding her faith. One month she is all about the church and can't wait to go to seminary and reassuring me this is what she wants, and now she has no clue if she even wants to be married to me. We have been meeting with our pastor who has us in a "therapeutic separation" to try to work out these differences but has, in my oppinion, been very lax toward my wife for threatening to break her vow. He has not applied the law at all. She is saying now that she has "hopes and dreams" of traveling the world, getting her PhD in social work, and feels limited in the LCMS because she "can't go to other churches" and we are too "limiting". She is upset that I cannot in good conscience support her attending other churches to supplement her Lutheran church life. When I bring up the scriptures to show her why, she claims I am "putting her down" and that "I think I am always right".

She knew the kind of life I wanted to pursue before we got married and she agreed, and now she completely flipped the script. I am far from a perfect husband, but I feel I am in limbo with no Idea what to do. We start marriage counseling next tuesday. I called and asked her if seeing the conversation she had with her ex would help me to have closure and move on from it, then she would let me see it. She adamently refused and said "I don't trust her" and I need to pray to "get over it". I feel that she is hiding something there. Am I being unreasonable? Any words of advice would be appreciated.


Pax,

Drew

Drew,

You should put off going to the seminary until these issues have been resolved. If you can't trust her now, you will not be able to trust her in seminary either. Seminary life can be very hard on even the most strong relationships. I thought my marriage was strong enough to survive being at the Fort Wayne Campus and I was wrong. I was able to finish my degree work because my divorce became final 2 weeks before my final quarter.

If you have doubts right now about her or she about you, they will be exacerbated at the Seminary and you will not make it. I don't know which Seminary you are planning to attend, but you don't want to go with these problems lingering. I don't advocate divorce if the marriage can be saved. I don't know your Pastor so I don't know why he is using the methods he is here. You and your wife are fallen sinners, but if she is believing that everything is innocent where she is concerned, she needs to have the Law thrown at her a bit.

My suggestion to you is to contact your Admissions director at the school and ask for his advice. I know delaying is not what you want to do at this time, but until you either get your marriage on track or divorce, you will not be able to focus on where the Lord is leading you and wanting to teach you. I am now finished with the mandatory 2-year sabbatical and am looking forward to a 2nd vicarage to prepare me for ministry.

I hope that you are able to get this resolved and be able to move forward, but it may take some time.

In Christ,

Scott Strohkirch

 

[Drew1986]

Scott,

I am so very sorry to hear of your divorce. My heart aches for you and I too share the concerns you have about starting seminary with it being like this. My pastor has encouraged me to keep the course and not make any drastic changes yet, but he also is optimistic that the seminary will help us spiritually. I for one question his optimism or really even the wisdom of such a suggestion. I am planning (?) on attending the Fort Wayne campus as well. Would you be ok with PM'ing me or emailing me? If it is ok with you I would like to ask a couple of questions...

Blessings,

Drew

 

[motherprayer]

I'm praying for you! I'm not a Lutheran myself, per se, but I do believe in the power of God to heal and restore marriages. I'm sorry to hear you're going through so much, and I will keep you in my prayers!

 

[Drew1986]

Thank you for the prayers!

 

[QuiltAngel]

Drew,
I am going to second MDIVGRAD. I know of another young man who got married between earning his BA and Seminary. She did not have a Lutheran background. When they got to Seminary, she decided that being the wife of a Pastor was not for her and asked for a divorce. After trying to save the marriage, they still got divorced. He ended up having to leave seminary for about 1.5 years or so.

I think you two need to take a year or so to work out your situation with a Christian counselor or not. Sounds like there is quite a trust issue and that is not good.

I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.

 

[Drew1986]

I think I am leaning that way. I need to call admissions and talk to them about it. By the looks of it though, it seems this may be a situation that happens more often than I thought.

 

[LilLamb219]

I've learned that the people who claim, "You don't trust me" and still hide things...actually have something to hide

I hope the marriage counseling helps and I echo the others who recommend delaying entering the seminary. Also, it would be great if your wife could learn more about what Lutherans believe so she wouldn't be so eager to leave!

 

[Drew1986]

My thoughts exactly

 

[Tangible]

It is a sad characteristic of Evangelicals, and of American society in general, that they believe that God would not want them to suffer or even be unhappy, that they have a personally inalienable right to pursue their own idea of happiness, and if they are happy or pursuing happiness that God will approve of them.

They often gauge whether or not they are "in the center of God's will" by how happy they are, how much peace they have.

This is pure paganism.

God expects us to do what is right as revealed in scripture. He expects us to forgive each other as he forgives us. He expects us to lay down our lives for each other as he laid down his life for us. He expects us to suffer for each other, to endure suffering, to accept being wronged and to forgive without revenge or pay-back.

That is what God expects. And when we fail, we have God's grace and mercy in Christ for our comfort and assurance.

 

[Drew1986]

It is a sad characteristic of Evangelicals, and of American society in general, that they believe that God would not want them to suffer or even be unhappy, that they have a personally inalienable right to pursue their own idea of happiness, and if they are happy or pursuing happiness that God will approve of them.

They often gauge whether or not they are "in the center of God's will" by how happy they are, how much peace they have.

This is pure paganism.

God expects us to do what is right as revealed in scripture. He expects us to forgive each other as he forgives us. He expects us to lay down our lives for each other as he laid down his life for us. He expects us to suffer for each other, to endure suffering, to accept being wronged and to forgive without revenge or pay-back.

That is what God expects. And when we fail, we have God's grace and mercy in Christ for our comfort and assurance.

I completely 100 percent agree. And thus, there is my dilemma. When everything for her is dripping in theology of glory, how do I relate to her as my spouse about how carrying a cross is not exactly fun? She now tends to dismiss scripture and told me yesterday that those who continue unhappy marriages and suffer in them are stupid. I am so confused. I feel duped and that she is now seeing what real Christianity teaches and is completely repulsed by it. Perhaps God is trying to teach me something here?

 

[Tangible]

1 Corinthians 7

 

[Luther073082]

I would agree, doing something like seminary while your marriage is having trouble is certainly not going to help and can only hurt.

I'm not sure what the motive is behind this separation. I'm no marriage councilor but I tend to believe that if no one is being abused separation actually tends to hurt more then it helps.

But I would leave that up to him because that is his job, not mine.

I'm surprised that her family was ok with that (putting her head in his lap). I can not see my family or my wife's family finding that sort of thing acceptable. And my family is not Christian.

 

[Drew1986]

We were at her father's house and her father was actually not in the room. I have a hard time seeing how he would have an issue with it. It is difficult because her parents are basically encouraging her to just "do what makes you happy and come home". I feel like the deck is totally stacked against our marriage.

 

[cerette]

It is a sad characteristic of Evangelicals, and of American society in general, that they believe that God would not want them to suffer or even be unhappy, that they have a personally inalienable right to pursue their own idea of happiness, and if they are happy or pursuing happiness that God will approve of them.

They often gauge whether or not they are "in the center of God's will" by how happy they are, how much peace they have.

This is pure paganism.

God expects us to do what is right as revealed in scripture. He expects us to forgive each other as he forgives us. He expects us to lay down our lives for each other as he laid down his life for us. He expects us to suffer for each other, to endure suffering, to accept being wronged and to forgive without revenge or pay-back.

That is what God expects. And when we fail, we have God's grace and mercy in Christ for our comfort and assurance.

The best post I've read in a long time!

 

[Luther073082]

We were at her father's house and her father was actually not in the room. I have a hard time seeing how he would have an issue with it. It is difficult because her parents are basically encouraging her to just "do what makes you happy and come home". I feel like the deck is totally stacked against our marriage.

When I got married to my wife the pastor that did our pre-marital counciling told me something that I think applies here.

He said that there are 3 people out there rooting for your marriage to be successful. That is the 2 of you and God. Your parents want you to get married, because that is what makes you happy, but at the same time if they start hearing things about the marriage that make you seriously unhappy or upset, they may not be for the marriage so much anymore.

Now while I'm not sure that my in laws or my parents would immediately support divorce if something is making us unhappy, I do think the point was a worthwhile one at the same time. That if people outside of the marriage hear that you are unhappy, not very many of them may push for "work it out" and most will push for "divorce".

You may want to address that with the pastor and maybe he can address it with her in the context that you can't let other people try to push you out of your marriage.

 

[Drew1986]

Thank you to everyone for your prayers. I wanted to give an update on our situation. I called the seminary and had them hold my application for at least a year. I just moved back into our house last night and from what she tells me she is leaving the Lutheran Church because she doesn't feel "fed" and wants to move back to PA.

She told me to "Do what I want" and that If I really wanted this to work I would compromise and support her going to different churches and move back with her. I don't think I can support either of those things at this time. She is supposed to have a meeting with our Pastor this week so I will let you know how that goes. She claims to have been praying for God to heal our marriage for a long time and because it hasn't looked the way she wants it she reasons that God never wanted us to get married. What is really hard is that I am losing my job in 2 months because I already told them I was leaving for seminary and they already hired my replacement. As always, your prayers would be greatly encouraging as I have no clue where my life is heading and feel as if I am in a no-win situation.

-Drew

 

[LilLamb219]

How, exactly, does your wife expect to be "fed"?

Hopefully speaking with a Lutheran pastor will help open her eyes to the great distress that SHE is bringing to the marriage. It's her responsibility to help ease things along in working it out, not put up demands and expectations because she feels like it.

I reread what you've written in this thread and it really appears as if your wife is the one who is sabotaging the marriage. She wasn't ready to commit and is trying to put a blame on everything else because of it.