Mark of the beast

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have been hearing and seeing alot of different ideas on just what the mark of the beast is, and how it is recieved. Most all of these ideas are based upon an (outward mark) applied on the either the head or the hand. Some say it is a tatoo, or barcode, or microchip, or hexagram, or an implant of some sort to mark the unfaithful.

I personally believe, based on the Word of God, that this mark is spiritual, and has all to do with what is in (the heart) and (mind) of man. Just as the mark, or seal of the Holy Spirit is an( inward spiritual mark) that seals Gods elect to the day of redemption.

I believe Jesus said it best in this parable in Mark 7:14-23;"And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me everyone of you, and understand:

15. There is nothing from (without a man), that (enters into him) can defile him: but the things which (come out) of him, those are they that (defile) the man.

16. If any man has ears to hear, let him hear.

17. And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18. And he said unto them, Are you so without understanding also? Do you not percieve, that whatsoever thing from (without) enters into the man, it ( cannot defile ) him;

19. Because it ( enters not) into his ( heart), but into the belly, and goes out into the draught, purging all meats?

20. And he said, That which (comes out) of the man, ( that defiles) the man.

21. For from (within), out of ( the heart) of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22. Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23. All of these (evil things) come from (within), and (defile) the man."

Even though Jesus was speaking of food in this parable, it can be applied to all things (outside) the man. The Lord made it clear in this parable that it is what is on the (inside of a mans heart) that determines if he is good or evil, any thing else on (the outside) of the man is of no consequence.

So no matter what outward mark is placed on a man, it is the spiritual (inward mark) that determines if a man is defiled or not.

This is the Word of God.

You will find, the further you get away from the written Word, the further you get away from the Truth.

 

[1whirlwind]

I personally believe, based on the Word of God, that this mark is spiritual, and has all to do with what is in (the heart) and (mind) of man. Just as the mark, or seal of the Holy Spirit is an( inward spiritual mark) that seals Gods elect to the day of redemption.

You will find, the further you get away from the written Word, the further you get away from the Truth.

.

 

[Satt]

I tend to agree, but what about not being able to buy and sell?

 

[1whirlwind]

I tend to agree, but what about not being able to buy and sell?

Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


The symbolism of the items...sheep, wheat, beasts, etc. are people. This is about buying and selling the souls of men, not things.


.

 

[visionary]

God's mark or seal is not visible... like a tatoo or computer chip.

 

[Mr.Waffles]

Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


The symbolism of the items...sheep, wheat, beasts, etc. are people. This is about buying and selling the souls of men, not things.


.

This is clearly incorrect 1whirlwind. The souls of men is one item among a long list, that is not what the passage is saying at all. You're interpreting scripture backwards. Careful, we don't want to assume scripture says a certain thing when it doesn't

 

[Mr.Waffles]

Also...

''And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.''

Applying the whole ''soul bartering'' idea here couldn't be more of an awkward fit. It simply has nothing to do with what is being said here. Every and all of his followers will be marked, and this is to provide the ability for each of these people individually to buy and sell. Inserting ''souls'' here is the equivalent of eisegesis, because you are attaching additional meaning which is not present whatsoever.

Not only that, but the idea of men and women buying and selling the souls of other men and women? Can you not see this is far from it?

 

[ciel_perdu]

Thanks Waffles for your thoughts.

I really do appreciate it when people bring back talk about the mark of the beast to the things the specific things we know about it from those verses, namely:

- no one will be able to buy and sell without it
- it will be in the right hand or forehead (or people will have the number/name).

More often than not, when any talk comes around to the mark people insert their spurious interpretations, add words to the text, or just plain overlook what the actual verse says! People get tripped off on occult symbols, that one needs to know what the mark meant for Cain, or any other number of theories, but pretty much none of them every deal with the things we actually KNOW about the mark (the ones I mentioned above), nor yet try to make their interpretation fit with the things that Jesus taught. It would be nice if people could have a cohesive theory that takes into the facts, relates to what Jesus taught, conveys spiritual lessons, and is relevant to where we are in the world.

For me personally, I don't know 100% that the mark of the beast will be a microchip, but as yet, I don't see anything else that could fit this prophecy at present.

Money has, over thousands of years gone from expensive metal to cheaper metals, to paper, to plastic and now just digits in a computer one can move around with their computer/phone etc. That is definitely an evolution of money. And it's not stopping there. In night clubs around Europe people have a chip implanted in their arm, with which they can buy drinks and pay for admission. When scanned it shows their credit, a picture to identify them etc. There are phones in Kenya where people can send money via the phone, pay for things with thier phone. Recently I read of a new I-phone in the U.S. where people can scan credit/debit cards with it, effectively meaning one can use them to pay for and accept payment for anything/anywhere. And again in the U.K. a phone that you can put up to 15 pounds on, and one only needs to TAP the phone against the scanner and funds are deducted.

Whatever people think about the mark of the beast, it's getting pretty undeniable that the world is moving towards a cashless society. A microhip implant would be more efficient, cut down on illegal money changing hands, fraud, theft etc etc. The benifits are many. Even IF there was no such prophecy as the one we have, I am still convinced we are moving towards a more centralized monetary system. I think people really just need to look at the changes in the money system in their life time, and just think, ''what will it be like in 20 years time?'' for example.

( I can paste links etc for articles dealing with the clubs in Europe if people would like- alternatively just google baja beach club, verichip)

Now, back to Jesus. Jesus taught that man cannot serve both God and money, that we would love one and hate the other. People think they can do both but we can't. Jesus taught that those who reject working for money would live by faith in God and his provision. The mark of the beast really is just the line in the sand where people finally make a choice, either one's faith is in God or it is in Money. You see, thats the real issue...it's not are we going to serve God or the devil, it's are we going to serve God or money - Matthew 6:24.

For those who reject the mark, they will not be able to buy and sell. I don't need to go into the consequences of what that means, I am sure everyone can just look at their life now, and take stock of how much working for money, using money to buy and sell, plays a part in thier lives. Nevertheless, those who reject it will be (IMO) treated very suspectly, will face rejection and hatred from their families, and will really have to learn to live like the birds and the flowers, working for God, and allowing him to provide for them.

Paul taught that the love of money is the root of all evil. And really, that's why we as Christians need to make movements away from working for money, and even using it less and less. We need to prepare for the mark of the beast. Many (in fact most people) will take the mark, and I can pretty much say with confidence they won't take it because they think themselves as satan worshippers. They will take it because plain and simple, they love money and all that money gets them. Many 'christians' will say things like ''but he who doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel''. They will say things like, ''well Paul made tents''...or...''If you don't work you can't eat''. The list goes on. But, that's the choice we all have.

Anyway, hopefully I haven't bored anyone, I just wanted to share my thoughts. If people disagree with me, that's cool. I don't think I have it all right, but I would expect that those who do disagree, at least present something cohesive that can stand questioning. Similarly, if people want to question what I have wrote, please do.

 

[Partaker of Christ]

You will find, the further you get away from the written Word, the further you get away from the Truth.

Which again sadly, is exactly what you have done.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jude 1:10-11;"But these (speak evil) of things which (they know not) but what ( they know naturally), as (brute beasts), in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone the way of (Cain), and ran greedily after the(error) of Balaam for reward, and perished in the (gainsaying) of Cor'-e."

Yes, it is sad.

 

[zeke37]

Thanks Waffles for your thoughts.

I really do appreciate it when people bring back talk about the mark of the beast to the things the specific things we know about it from those verses, namely:

- no one will be able to buy and sell without it
- it will be in the right hand or forehead (or people will have the number/name).

More often than not, when any talk comes around to the mark people insert their spurious interpretations, add words to the text, or just plain overlook what the actual verse says! People get tripped off on occult symbols, that one needs to know what the mark meant for Cain, or any other number of theories, but pretty much none of them every deal with the things we actually KNOW about the mark (the ones I mentioned above), nor yet try to make their interpretation fit with the things that Jesus taught. It would be nice if people could have a cohesive theory that takes into the facts, relates to what Jesus taught, conveys spiritual lessons, and is relevant to where we are in the world.

For me personally, I don't know 100% that the mark of the beast will be a microchip, but as yet, I don't see anything else that could fit this prophecy at present.

Money has, over thousands of years gone from expensive metal to cheaper metals, to paper, to plastic and now just digits in a computer one can move around with their computer/phone etc. That is definitely an evolution of money. And it's not stopping there. In night clubs around Europe people have a chip implanted in their arm, with which they can buy drinks and pay for admission. When scanned it shows their credit, a picture to identify them etc. There are phones in Kenya where people can send money via the phone, pay for things with thier phone. Recently I read of a new I-phone in the U.S. where people can scan credit/debit cards with it, effectively meaning one can use them to pay for and accept payment for anything/anywhere. And again in the U.K. a phone that you can put up to 15 pounds on, and one only needs to TAP the phone against the scanner and funds are deducted.

Whatever people think about the mark of the beast, it's getting pretty undeniable that the world is moving towards a cashless society. A microhip implant would be more efficient, cut down on illegal money changing hands, fraud, theft etc etc. The benifits are many. Even IF there was no such prophecy as the one we have, I am still convinced we are moving towards a more centralized monetary system. I think people really just need to look at the changes in the money system in their life time, and just think, ''what will it be like in 20 years time?'' for example.

( I can paste links etc for articles dealing with the clubs in Europe if people would like- alternatively just google baja beach club, verichip)

Now, back to Jesus. Jesus taught that man cannot serve both God and money, that we would love one and hate the other. People think they can do both but we can't. Jesus taught that those who reject working for money would live by faith in God and his provision. The mark of the beast really is just the line in the sand where people finally make a choice, either one's faith is in God or it is in Money. You see, thats the real issue...it's not are we going to serve God or the devil, it's are we going to serve God or money - Matthew 6:24.

For those who reject the mark, they will not be able to buy and sell. I don't need to go into the consequences of what that means, I am sure everyone can just look at their life now, and take stock of how much working for money, using money to buy and sell, plays a part in thier lives. Nevertheless, those who reject it will be (IMO) treated very suspectly, will face rejection and hatred from their families, and will really have to learn to live like the birds and the flowers, working for God, and allowing him to provide for them.

Paul taught that the love of money is the root of all evil. And really, that's why we as Christians need to make movements away from working for money, and even using it less and less. We need to prepare for the mark of the beast. Many (in fact most people) will take the mark, and I can pretty much say with confidence they won't take it because they think themselves as satan worshippers. They will take it because plain and simple, they love money and all that money gets them. Many 'christians' will say things like ''but he who doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel''. They will say things like, ''well Paul made tents''...or...''If you don't work you can't eat''. The list goes on. But, that's the choice we all have.

Anyway, hopefully I haven't bored anyone, I just wanted to share my thoughts. If people disagree with me, that's cool. I don't think I have it all right, but I would expect that those who do disagree, at least present something cohesive that can stand questioning. Similarly, if people want to question what I have wrote, please do.

God's mark is spiritual, not literal, and is described in Ex13, Deut6, Deut11,
as being in the same place as where the beast puts his mark.

this cannot be coincidence...


so any chip or tattoo is not the mark, as it was not so with God.



my opinion
a NWO coming soon.
a new world currency. no more usa currency etc...
we all are told to sign up, get your share of the new currency, or else you cant buy and sell in the new economy.
most of the world will automatically sign up...including most Christians

only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.
they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation, and made preparations for that short time....
which is shortened for the elect's sake, to a season (prob the 5 months of Rev9)



so no chip or tattoo required, but certainly the mark involves accepting the beats kingdom and using it's currency.

 

[JackB03]

Ill make it simple.... You will know who the antichrist is. You will know what the mark is. And the only way you will know?

1 John 4:6
We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

God always allows you to know the Truth. If any of us have to go thru this, He will show us the Truth. People have different ways of interpreting Revelations. Ill be honest, I'm alittle frustrated not to know. BUT.... I have to put Faith in God and continue living by His Word. Whatever happens, or however it happens, He will be there!

Jack

 

[Fireinfolding]

These two go together

John 8:4 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Now if we can only all agree on interpretation

 

[JackB03]

These two go together

John 8:4 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Now if we can only all agree on interpretation

HAHAHA... From what I see, that will never happen. I used the NIV version of that scripture. Im going KJV soon. I see some errors in the NIV.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Well, Im not one of those "advocates" (if you know what I mean) although (for me) I learned to read by it (not knowing at first) there were different versions, but it works beautifully for me, things are easy to find. Scriptures are awesome in the sense you dont get tripped up by words because the same thing is repeated (various ways) and words are used interchangeably (with others) so you dont have to get tripped up over a word.


Though folks will sure make ya an offernder for a word

Good luck with that, love mine (in spite of trying to figure out who "thee" and "thou" was at first) and absolutely (yes) I was "that" dense!

God bless you brother

 

[NightHawkeye]

Ill make it simple.... You will know who the antichrist is. You will know what the mark is. And the only way you will know?

I'm guessing ... only if one wants to know. It's sufficient that we know the TRUTH and the path we each need to travel ... that's God's way. It's sufficient to know that what the antichrist is doing is wrong ... no need to know his identity or many other details.

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
​

I suspect that knowing the identity could engender hatred which might work to the antichrist's advantage. Besides, it is written that there are many antichrists.

God always allows you to know the Truth. If any of us have to go thru this, He will show us the Truth. People have different ways of interpreting Revelations. Ill be honest, I'm alittle frustrated not to know. BUT.... I have to put Faith in God and continue living by His Word. Whatever happens, or however it happens, He will be there!

Jack

 

[MasterRich]

God's mark is spiritual, not literal, and is described in Ex13, Deut6, Deut11,
as being in the same place as where the beast puts his mark.

this cannot be coincidence...


so any chip or tattoo is not the mark, as it was not so with God.



my opinion
a NWO coming soon.
a new world currency. no more usa currency etc...
we all are told to sign up, get your share of the new currency, or else you cant buy and sell in the new economy.
most of the world will automatically sign up...including most Christians

only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.
they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation, and made preparations for that short time....
which is shortened for the elect's sake, to a season (prob the 5 months of Rev9)



so no chip or tattoo required, but certainly the mark involves accepting the beats kingdom and using it's currency.

That's exactly how this will happen but of course I've got other options open.

"Only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.
they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation"

Before I was saved I wouldn't have known about the hour of temptation. After I got saved I started to read the Book of Revelation and now I know the things that will happen. God has made my heart be prepared to give up everything here on earth and I've never felt so ready before!

 

[ciel_perdu]

Hi Zeke37,

Thanks for your response, however I would have appreciated hearing your thoughts on more of the spiritual issues that I raised in relating this prophecy to the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps you have some thoughts on that? Also, how do you see the obvious progression in the evolution of money, i.e. from coins-paper-plastic-and now microchip?

I disagree with your logic that the mark is just spiritual.

You wrote:

God's mark is spiritual, not literal, and is described in Ex13, Deut6, Deut11, as being in the same place as where the beast puts his mark.
this cannot be coincidence...
so any chip or tattoo is not the mark, as it was not so with God.

Ok so God gave a spiritual mark. But to suggest that because of this, that the mark of the beast is also spiritual, based on the reasoning that both are in the same place and that if it was spiritual for God then it must be spiritual for the devil, is really a leap of logic.

Just because it ''wasn't so with God'', really doesn't mean that it won't BE SO with the devil.

my opinion
a NWO coming soon.
a new world currency. no more usa currency etc...
we all are told to sign up, get your share of the new currency, or else you cant buy and sell in the new economy.
most of the world will automatically sign up...including most Christians

So, is the mark spiritual or is it some new currency? And how do you relate this in practical terms to the hand and the forehead? Again, it would be nice to hear your thoughts on these clubs in europe where people have chip currently in their arm, in which they can buy and sell. Sure, it's not the hand yet, but it's only a matter of time...it's a lot more convenient waving your hand.

only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.
they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation, and made preparations for that short time....
which is shortened for the elect's sake, to a season (prob the 5 months of Rev9)

I won't get into issues like the great tribulation etc, because I want to focus this on the mark. But, you talk about making preperations for the mark, but I didn't see any response to some of the heavy things I wrote previously about Jesus' teachings on not working for money and living by faith. What practical things can you share from Jesus to help us prepare for this time?

 

[zeke37]

Hi Zeke37,

Thanks for your response, however I would have appreciated hearing your thoughts on more of the spiritual issues that I raised in relating this prophecy to the teachings of Jesus.

Hi, I read your post...but my response was to another....not that I mind your imput.

Perhaps you have some thoughts on that? Also, how do you see the obvious progression in the evolution of money, i.e. from coins-paper-plastic-and now microchip?

i think it is interesting, and those methods of commerce will certainly be represented within the Beast's Kingdom.
But I doubt the entire world will ever be micro-chipped....
we have many isolated indigionous peoples today that dont use any form of currency.

IMO a soon coming global crisis will lead to a NWO being set up...(lead spiritually by Satan from heaven)
and it will quickly fail....war within....(deadly wound)

that is when the supernatural fallen angel Satan, will be cast to earth for his short time,
and pretend to be Jesus (and all that is called God).

he will unite the world and bring peace, by his appearance, and signs of power/miracles,
thus saving the broken World System (deadly wound) as the world's vast majority believe his flood of lies.

anyone that accepts the false Christ's kingdom (NWO) and participates in it's economy,
will have the mark...including Christians.
anyone that believes this false Christ's lies and worships him as God, will aswell....again, including Christians.

but no chip is needed....maybe convenient, but not needed.

I disagree with your logic that the mark is just spiritual.

You wrote:

God's mark is spiritual, not literal, and is described in Ex13, Deut6, Deut11, as being in the same place as where the beast puts his mark.
this cannot be coincidence...
so any chip or tattoo is not the mark, as it was not so with God.
​

Ok so God gave a spiritual mark. But to suggest that because of this, that the mark of the beast is also spiritual, based on the reasoning that both are in the same place and that if it was spiritual for God then it must be spiritual for the devil, is really a leap of logic.

Just because it ''wasn't so with God'', really doesn't mean that it won't BE SO with the devil.

most, if not most all, of the Revelation, is based off of direct quotes found in the OT prophets.
also, this line of thought is consistant with the character of Satan/Lucifer/the devil found in the bible,
as he has always wanted to, and attempted to, be worshiped as God...

the Ex13,Deut6/11 passages describing God's mark, is based off of KEEPING the first commandment...
it is no coincidence that those who take the mark of the beast, are in direct conflict with this...the opposite, as they worship another.

add to that, that a physical mark would be recognized by everyone,
but a spiritual one would not.

the devil is wiser than the most wise of us....
only the elect, chosen by God as such, will not be deceived...

forcing me to take the chip/tattoo, would prove nothing...
doesn't show my heart...or values....or faith...

the devil deceives the entire world...and is worshiped as God (Jesus).
this fulfills the mark of the beast requirements IMO.

my opinion
a NWO coming soon.
a new world currency. no more usa currency etc...
we all are told to sign up, get your share of the new currency, or else you cant buy and sell in the new economy.
most of the world will automatically sign up...including most Christians
​

​

So, is the mark spiritual or is it some new currency?
​

the mark is spiritual, the currency the false kingdom uses is literal....
you could be spiritually deceived and believe the devil's lies of being the Lord, without ever spending a dime!

And how do you relate this in practical terms to the hand and the forehead?

what you believe (head) and what you do (hand)

Again, it would be nice to hear your thoughts on these clubs in europe where people have chip currently in their arm, in which they can buy and sell. Sure, it's not the hand yet, but it's only a matter of time...it's a lot more convenient waving your hand.

​

ya, they've been out for a few years now....
dog tag ID's too, and there's talk about having our kids chipped for safety purposes...
(I have three young children)

still dont think it's the mark of the beast tho.

only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.

they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation, and made preparations for that short time....
which is shortened for the elect's sake, to a season (prob the 5 months of Rev9)

I won't get into issues like the great tribulation etc, because I want to focus this on the mark.

I think the mark is only even available during the final half of the trib period,
when the false Christ is here literally, pretending to be Jesus,
trying to get us all to believe him and join his "kingdom"

But, you talk about making preperations for the mark,

i believe the elect will be able to recognize the signs
and be prepared (and protected) in such a way as they will not need to buy or sell anything to get through that time

but I didn't see any response to some of the heavy things I wrote previously about Jesus' teachings on not working for money and living by faith. What practical things can you share from Jesus to help us prepare for this time?

Jesus gave us lots of pracitical advice..
if you value money and things over God, so be it...
easier for an elephant to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to go to heaven...

IMO, we will all face a choice...
and that choice will be to either accept the NEW system and it's leader,
or to not accept it and have faith that God will see you through that time,
keeping you from the temptation everyone else will have.

if u know what's up, it's hard to be tempted.

 

[zeke37]

That's exactly how this will happen but of course I've got other options open.

"Only the elect, who will be redeemed from the earth, will not sign up.
they will have recognized that the world is in the hour of temptation"

Before I was saved I wouldn't have known about the hour of temptation. After I got saved I started to read the Book of Revelation and now I know the things that will happen. God has made my heart be prepared to give up everything here on earth and I've never felt so ready before!

for sure.....i'm only human and faulible....this is my opinion...
I'm open too...time will tell.