Mark of the Beast

[TrustAndObey]

Very good post Tall.

 

[Jon0388g]

Good advice.

I drew this up some time ago:


Understanding the underlying Old Testament Allusions within the book of Revelation is a key to understanding the passages' meaning. The allusions for the seal is helpful.

The mark always has its opposite, the seal of God. They key texts are Revelation 13 , Revelation 7, and 14. In each of these we learn something about the seal of God or the mark of the beast.

In the particular case of the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast one of the key allusions is to the vision of Ezekiel in chapters 8 and 9. Here we see an account of the false worship of the Israelites, practiced by the leaders, in the temple itself. God pronounces judgement on them, and in the vision that Ezekiel sees this judgement is immediate. It foreshadows the actual judgement brought about during the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon.

Here is the key part of the passage as it regards the Seal of God.



EZE 8:17 He said to me, "Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the house of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually provoke me to anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! 18 Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them."

EZE 9:1 Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, "Bring the guards of the city here, each with a weapon in his hand." 2 And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.

EZE 9:3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

EZE 9:5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary."



So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
As you notice the imagery of a mark in the forehead of those who are faithful to God was already seen here. And it is clear from the vision and subsequent fulfillment of the vison that

a. the mark is not a literal mark
b. The mark is a sign of loyalty to God, and grieving over apostasy and false worship.

It is not literal in the story as the true slaughter happened under the babylonians. The leaders had the opportunity to show their faith by surrendering themselves to Babylon as the prophets said, and they would not be harmed.

In revelation we likewise see God placing a sign of loyalty on those who are faithful to Him amid widespread apostasy. The remnant concept was well firmly anchored in the OT where God had a group that were faithful to Him.

Compare the above vision with this of John's in Revelation 7. Again we see the idea that those who are spared are those who receive the Seal of God.


Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."

The mark of the beast is likewise the sign of loyalty to false worship. In fact we see in Revelation a false trinity (dragon, beast, false prophet), a false lamb (lamb-like beast), a false worship and a false seal, which is the Mark of the Beast.

The seal is being completely loyal to God in all things grieving and lamenting over all of the detestable things done in the land.

In all of the texts about the sealing the key issue was that the people were COMPLETELY dedicated to God. They loved what He loved and hated what He hated.

As in the OT, loyalty to God may be something that is visible. In the case of the captives there was a definite act of giving oneself over to the Babylonians.

Just as in OT times, loyalty to God will be something that can be seen. And disloyalty to God will likewise be something obvious.

The sealing is is being filled with God's Spirit, wanting what He wants and loving what He loves. Or as Revelation puts it, "following the Lamb wherever He goes."

These are good points.

Don't you think it's a bit general though? Do you believe that the Law has an important role to play in receiving the seal of God?


Jon

 

[tall73]

These are good points.

Don't you think it's a bit general though? Do you believe that the Law has an important role to play in receiving the seal of God?


Jon

Do you know anyone who loves what God loves and hates what He hates, and who follows Him wherever He goes that has problems with the law?

The focus is not on the law. The focus is on the Lamb.

 

[StormyOne]

Do you know anyone who loves what God loves and hates what He hates, and who follows Him wherever He goes that has problems with the law?

The focus is not on the law. The focus is on the Lamb.

amen.... Its about Christ.... and Christ is not focusing on the law, He is focusing on those who believe in him and are in relationship with him....

 

[OntheDL]

Do you know anyone who loves what God loves and hates what He hates, and who follows Him wherever He goes that has problems with the law?

The focus is not on the law. The focus is on the Lamb.

However the law leads you to the Lamb. The law is a mirror that shows your dirt and the need to go to the water for cleansing.

One is only deceiving himself in saying he doesn't need the law. How do know Christ? The law is a transcript of Christ's character.

 

[StormyOne]

However the law leads you to the Lamb. The law is a mirror that shows your dirt and the need to go to the water for cleansing.

One is only deceiving himself in saying he doesn't need the law. How do know Christ? The law is a transcript of Christ's character.

before the law was given, how did humans know what God was like?

 

[OntheDL]

The bible is comprised of Law and Prophet. Together they testify of Jesus. Disgard at your own peril.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[StormyOne]

The bible is comprised of Law and Prophet. Together they testify of Jesus. Disgard at your own peril.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

before the bible was written, how did people know God?

 

[OntheDL]

before the bible was written, how did people know God?

Do you have a face-to-face relationship with God now?

How do you know God then? By reading the bible: the law and the prophet.

 

[OntheDL]

before the law was given, how did humans know what God was like?

The question is when was the law given?

 

[StormyOne]

Do you have a face-to-face relationship with God now?

How do you know God then? By reading the bible: the law and the prophet.

no... that is not how I know God... it was not via reading the bible.... people have relationships with God without reading the bible and having never seen him... Now you may have learned about God via the law and the prophet, but don't conclude that all must learn of him in the manner you have....

 

[StormyOne]

The question is when was the law given?

that's your answer to the question?

 

[tall73]

However the law leads you to the Lamb. The law is a mirror that shows your dirt and the need to go to the water for cleansing.

One is only deceiving himself in saying he doesn't need the law. How do know Christ? The law is a transcript of Christ's character.

DL. I asked Freeindeed to explain a passage from Romans 7 and 8 because I think he is discounting the role of the law.

But let me ask you to interpret one too if you could:

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Please give your input on these verses.

 

[OntheDL]

DL. I asked Freeindeed to explain a passage from Romans 7 and 8 because I think he is discounting the role of the law.

But let me ask you to interpret one too if you could:

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Please give your input on these verses.

I don't think I need to interprete Romans 7:1-6 when the rest of that same chapter interpretes them already.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[tall73]

I don't think I need to interprete Romans 7:1-6 when the rest of that same chapter interpretes them already.

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So use those verses in your explanation.

 

[Jon0388g]

Do you know anyone who loves what God loves and hates what He hates, and who follows Him wherever He goes that has problems with the law?

The focus is not on the law. The focus is on the Lamb.

I agree with you. But I'm not sure what your point is here.


Jon

 

[PostTribber]

Yes, Sunday is definitely the first day of the week. Why would that be a thorn in our side? It helps prove that Saturday is the seventh day of the week, no?

...so we're agreed that Acts 20:7 refers to Sunday as the First Day of the Week, great! the resistance to that from 'previously related' posts was bewildering. I can see why believers, 'ostracized' from their 'jewish' community, would choose Sunday, the day of the Lord's 'resurrection', as an alternate. I'm not sure that this deserves the 'contention' that it generates, but it seems that the Bible has survived this long because it is 'contentious', like Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

 

[OntheDL]

...so we're agreed that Acts 20:7 refers to Sunday as the First Day of the Week, great! the resistance to that from 'previously related' posts was bewildering. I can see why believers, 'ostracized' from their 'jewish' community, would choose Sunday, the day of the Lord's 'resurrection', as an alternate. I'm not sure that this deserves the 'contention' that it generates, but it seems that the Bible has survived this long because it is 'contentious', like Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

Do you also agree that the biblical first day of the week contains Saturday evening to midnight?

 

[sentipente]

Do you also agree that the biblical first day of the week contains Saturday evening to midnight?

That would not negate his point.

 

[OntheDL]

That would not negate his point.

with respect to Acts 20:7 as a continuation?