Mark Driscoll

[sdmsanjose]

On another thread I read where someone was saying very negative things about Mark Driscoll. I have never heard of Mark but the criticisms got me curious. I viewed a few of Mark Driscoll’s messages and so far Mark seems very much on target.

Maybe Mark is whacked on some other issues, I do not know as I have only listened to a few, but I feel that he is right on the video below. What do you think?


Why I hate religion - Mark Driscoll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKT8IPdvzA&feature=related



Uploaded by djeror on Sep 4, 2007
Pastor Mark Driscoll explains the differences between religion and redemption. For more messages and information go to www.marshillchurch.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKT8IPdvzA&feature=related

 

[Conservativation]

He is a near miss, just like the bulk majority of churches. There are reasons these churches grow like wild fire

http://marshill.com/media/trial/marriage-and-women

 

[JaneFW]

I think he and his book are both appalling. I read some parts about how he had a "prophetic dream" that his wife had a sexual encounter in high school, and then he waited all night for her to wake up so that he could berate and accuse her. He was ready to leave his pregnant wife because of something she did in high school. She - and she must be on medication or is just somehow brain dead - is convinced that she "almost made him leave her." COME. ON. Where is Christ in this? Where is forgiveness, mercy and grace? What kind of person berates their spouse for something like that. I would be truly shocked if this was a prophetic dream or more like something he had always known about, or she had talked about (maybe even in her sleep!) I felt deeply sorry for the wife, I know that.

Also, his musings on how women need to be giving their h's oral sex on every opportunity, and how anal sex is a good alternative to birth control just disgusts me. I don't see that as a healthy sex life.

Oh, and his whole attitude towards women - sucks.

 

[Athene]

Isn't he one of those new fundigelical types who preaches about what I would describe as 'Rambo Jesus'?

 

[Athene]

I think he and his book are both appalling. I read some parts about how he had a "prophetic dream" that his wife had a sexual encounter in high school, and then he waited all night for her to wake up so that he could berate and accuse her. He was ready to leave his pregnant wife because of something she did in high school. She - and she must be on medication or is just somehow brain dead - is convinced that she "almost made him leave her." COME. ON. Where is Christ in this? Where is forgiveness, mercy and grace? What kind of person berates their spouse for something like that. I would be truly shocked if this was a prophetic dream or more like something he had always known about, or she had talked about (maybe even in her sleep!) I felt deeply sorry for the wife, I know that.

Also, his musings on how women need to be giving their h's oral sex on every opportunity, and how anal sex is a good alternative to birth control just disgusts me. I don't see that as a healthy sex life.

Oh, and his whole attitude towards women - sucks.

Excessive jealousy and mental abuse, he even managed to convince her it was all her fault. Wow.

 

[dallasapple]

He also wanted her to ask for his forgiveness that she was sexually assaulted at one point in her life. Becasue it was 'her issue" and it interupted with his sex on tap,anal sex.role playing ,providing him his sex needs so he wouldnt be by his own account a overbearing demanding husband..

Way to LEAD...that clip above as well that Cons provided on submission ..if you listen closely..its always based on the assumption the man KNOWS whats best for her..she apparrently isnt even AWARE that she is doing 'too much' and he needs to TELL her basically what to do what not to do because shes a mindless servant..and then shes thankful that he told her what she had not fully realized herself..

Here is the deal with that..there are at times OF course...BOTH the husband and the wife need the others perspective if they are becoming such things as a workoholic..or overextending themselves etc..the idea though its only one way is bull hockey...or that each of us cant come to a realization on our OWN..that we need to change something or do something different or say NO to some sort of committment..the MAN has NO supernatural "vision" to see things more clearly than a woman..

And hes es also just point blank MAKING UP..that men and women in an equal /mutually submissive realtionship do not have integrated lives..

The first model he showed..was I believe titled "non Christian marriage"..and that they live completely (litterally) seperate lives but for things they are both obligated to..like kids ...obviously thats not "integrated" but its also not 'non Christians way"..athiest have a LOWER divroce rate than Christians..and I can tell you it isnt becasue they have completely seperate lives like they are single livign together like roomates...but mutual /egalitarian is IN fact "integrated"..why is it its not 'integrated" if the "default' isn't the mans way?

Anyway the fact he has to point out a woman has her own mind..really tells it all..the reason it has to be pointed out..is the entire PREMISE of the man needs to make the decsions would indicate she DOESNT becasue thats how shes being TREATED by the simple fact HE is appointed the 'leader"..you cant UNDO that by saying she is his #1 influence after God..or that it doesnt mean she is unintelligent..In fact he can be the lesser of the two in intelligence..the "less competetent" and the woman follows him anyway...How is that good that you have someone LESS capable leading (calling all the shots?)..WHATS the point other than appeasing a mans desire to be in control of not only HIS life..but HERS?

Its ALL about control..this man is a control freak with a captial F.

Dallas

 

[sdmsanjose]

The other thread that I mentioned had this to say about Mark Driscoll:

Driscoll is a purity Pharisee

I'm also not a fan of those who call themselves brothers but are power hungry, will not take criticism, and have no humility what so ever. Driscoll fits all 3 of these as well

Also Driscoll is a flat out liar.

The man is a complete fraud if you ask me

maybe the faith would have been better off if hypermasculine, posturing, poorly trained, egotistical, and unqualified preachers like him didn't preach it would be for the best.

What has been said so far on this thread makes me think that Mark Driscoll has really offended a lot of people.

The video that I posted said almost nothing about the topics you all posted in this thread.

The video that I posted “Why I hate Religion” points out some false theology or misunderstandings and explains some correct theology such as redemption. The response posts you all have posted so far have mostly been talking about his relationship with his wife, women, and sex. So far I have not viewed any information about Mark and those topics. Those topics would probably be very interesting for another thread.

I was hoping that you all would comment on the video I posted and some of the video topics such as redemption. That is why I sated

I feel that he is right on the video below. What do you think?

I would still like to hear from you all on the video topics that I posted.

If you post a new thread that talks about what you have said I will read it but my video has very little to do with his views on sex and his relationship with his wife and women. To me redemtion was one of the main topics.

 

[dallasapple]

What has been said so far on this thread makes me think that Mark Driscoll has really offended a lot of people.

The video that I posted said almost nothing about the topics you all posted in this thread.

I will try and look at it later then Stan..Im having a really hard time lendign ANY CREDIBILITY to ANYTHING this man says after reading some exerts from his new book..including his proclomation that if he had KNOWN his wife (he says this CURRENTLY) had 'cheated on him"(when she was 17 before they were ever even engaged) that he would have NEVER MARRIED HER..That is his WIFE he is talking about..there is no other way to say it other than he doesnt even WANT to be marreid to the woman but now hes STUCK..so get on with the management of marriage and hes somehow an expert?

The look on her face even in these interviews and stuff is tht of a woman who is beign dragged around like a prop..to agree with everything he says..she seems weary and beaten down..referrring to her as 'baby doll' and petting her like a dog or something..Sorry...

Dallas

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote of Dallas

“...Im having a really hard time lendign ANY CREDIBILITY to ANYTHING this man says after reading some exerts from his new book…”


I know what you mean Dallas. Years ago I had a pastor that told a man that came to the church asking for food to go wait at the grocery store and he would buy him some food. I watched as the pastor drove to a restaurant so that he and his gang could eat and never bought the man anything. I bought the man something but that is the kind of pastor that he was. He thinks all people like that man are alcoholics or druggies trying to con Christians.

Another time my pastor’s mentor senior pastor (they both came to our church as a team from Michigan) was asked by a woman for some money or food. The senior pastor sent her away then told me that she is probably selling her a _ _ at the park.
Guess those two Michigan pastors think alike. There is no doubt that druggies and alcoholics con some Christians and some homeless women probably do sell their a _ _ but to pre-judge is not exactly the best Christian testimony. Tells you something about thier attitude regarding the poor.

Besides, you can always meet them at the grocery store and buy them food not alcohol. That is what I do. Actually these two pastors helped me in the area of how I few pastors. I used to think that pastors were more spiritual than the average Christians. I no longer get sucked into that view. I no longer go to that church so those pastors do not miss me and I do not miss them.

It was hard fro me to listen to them instruct me on how I should be a Christian when them seem to be insensitive to the down and outers. So If I were to be offended by Mark I may not listen to the good stuff that he says. I now try and listen for the truth and not be too affected by the speaker, which is hard to do. The only thing that I have read about Mark Driscoll I have posted on the CF forums and they were both good. In fact I just listened to another one of Mark’s video and it seem like it is very useful. Here it is below
10 Things That Forgiveness Is Not
This clip is taken from the sermon "The Lord's Prayer," preached by Pastor Mark Driscoll at the Mars Hill Church Ballard campus in Seattle, Washington on September 19, 2010. It is the 47th sermon in our sermon series on the Gospel of Luke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0OhnhJe-M

 

[Autumnleaf]

He is a near miss, just like the bulk majority of churches. There are reasons these churches grow like wild fire

http://marshill.com/media/trial/marriage-and-women

At around 37:00 he hits a solid point.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I live in the area that the Mars Hill church started (Seattle) and I have not been impressed with him or the church. I have watched a few segments of his sermons and they seem to be theologically OK, but something about him just rubbed me the wrong way.

On the bright side, since Washington state is (or was) the 49th churched state, someone preaching the word of God and exposing the Gospel to some who otherwise would not be receptive can't be all that bad. He may miss on some things, but he is human like the rest of us.

 

[Romanseight2005]

The other thread that I mentioned had this to say about Mark Driscoll:



What has been said so far on this thread makes me think that Mark Driscoll has really offended a lot of people.

The video that I posted said almost nothing about the topics you all posted in this thread.

The video that I posted “Why I hate Religion” points out some false theology or misunderstandings and explains some correct theology such as redemption. The response posts you all have posted so far have mostly been talking about his relationship with his wife, women, and sex. So far I have not viewed any information about Mark and those topics. Those topics would probably be very interesting for another thread.

I was hoping that you all would comment on the video I posted and some of the video topics such as redemption. That is why I sated


I would still like to hear from you all on the video topics that I posted.

If you post a new thread that talks about what you have said I will read it but my video has very little to do with his views on sex and his relationship with his wife and women. To me redemtion was one of the main topics.

Okay, but if you merely wanted people's opinion on that particular video, then why did you state that you saw things about him on another thread, where people were offended by him?

It sounded to me like you had seen the video you posted, and liked it, so you were wondering what others saw, that they were offended by. Therefore people here were answering that question, just to clarify.

Now, if people know much more about this man's beliefs, and what he stands for, it stands to reason, that one video with good qualities, is not going to change their minds about his overreaching message. In other words, this man is known for his agenda, so one decent message just isn't going to change that.

 

[LinkH]

I think he and his book are both appalling. I read some parts about how he had a "prophetic dream" that his wife had a sexual encounter in high school, and then he waited all night for her to wake up so that he could berate and accuse her. He was ready to leave his pregnant wife because of something she did in high school. She - and she must be on medication or is just somehow brain dead - is convinced that she "almost made him leave her." COME. ON. Where is Christ in this? Where is forgiveness, mercy and grace? What kind of person berates their spouse for something like that. I would be truly shocked if this was a prophetic dream or more like something he had always known about, or she had talked about (maybe even in her sleep!) I felt deeply sorry for the wife, I know that.

I did not read the book or hear the story you are talking about. If his wife married him pretending to be a virgin and she wasn't, or pretending not to have done something that she had done of a sexual nature, she had ripped him off. In the Old Testament, our righteous Almighty God gave Israel commandments regarding a death penalty for a girl playing the harlot in her father's house and being married off under the pretense of being a virgin. God apparently takes this sort of thing seriously.

As far as grace and mercy is concerned, God can give prophetic dreams to people who show a lack of mercy. Nebucadnezzar wasn't always the most merciful man. He threatened to throw three Hebrews into a fiery furnace for not committing idolatry. He planned to kill all the wise men in the land because the ones he spoke to could not tell him what he had dreamed-- a prophetic dream. Yet this man had two prophetic dreams.

Also, his musings on how women need to be giving their h's oral sex on every opportunity, and how anal sex is a good alternative to birth control just disgusts me. I don't see that as a healthy sex life.

I am not familiar with the anal thing. I read one quote suggesting the oral thing to unbelieving husbands. I've seen a number of clips of his on YouTube, mostly good stuff. The portion of the first video I saw in this thread seemed pretty good, but I haven't finished it.

 

[moonkitty]

Let me make sure I have this straight, the man dreams that his wife had sex with someone else when she was in high school; therefore he wants to leave her now, even though she is pregnant, and for him to stay she has to ask forgiveness for him having a dream about her having sex with someone else years ago. She has to appolgize for what he dreams about her?

 

[Niffer]

Let me make sure I have this straight, the man dreams that his wife had sex with someone else when she was in high school; therefore he wants to leave her now, even though she is pregnant, and for him to stay she has to ask forgiveness for him having a dream about her having sex with someone else years ago. She has to appolgize for what he dreams about her?

LOL!! Thats about what I understood!!

 

[hijklmnop]

Im not interested in anything this guy has to say.

 

[mkgal1]

I'm of the belief that if God can use a donkey to speak truth to someone (Numbers 22)....then He can use anyone to deliver the truth to us.

However....we *are* instructed to test every spirit, and IMO, Driscoll's spirit is more self-directed than it is God-directed. For that reason, I would rather listen to someone that has demonstrated having their heart in the right place.

The first video has some truth to it.....I agree that religion is a contrast to redemption. I think it's an important point that religion breeds either a feeling of "I can't" which leads to despair and hopelessness........or "Look at how great I am---what a great Christian I am" That's great to point out.

What concerns me, though, is if each week his sermons are like this---that is never encouraging growth. He's right.....our relationship with God isn't due to our performance.....but, it should be a goal to increase intimacy with Him.....not merely halting at salvation. That's like starting at the finish line----already reaching our goal, before we even "ran the race".

 

[Athene]

I have looked this up. He dreamt his wife had sex with another guy when she was in high school, they had just started dating at this point. He spent all night fretting over it and in the morning confronted her. She admitted it was true, apologised for lying and that's when he said he would never have married her if he'd known.

The blog where I read that from, makes this point - the time he was going through all sorts of stress in his own personal life was the same time his church was starting off and he was preaching to others about marriage and sex. Driscol admits for himself that the troubles in his own marriage 'made him chauvinistic' and affected the tone of the message he was preaching. That's a pretty astonishing admission from a Christian of that sort of background. It's normally only 'heathen' liberals who will admit that what we say about scripture now is culturally/socially conditioned and we could be very very wrong in our interpretations.

This is the blog in question. The author isn't Driscoll friendly, but she makes a very good point that we expect pastors to be experts on everything. Driscoll isn't an expert and his opinions on marriage and sex should be treated in the same way that any other laymans opinions should be treated.

 

[mkgal1]

Let me make sure I have this straight, the man dreams that his wife had sex with someone else when she was in high school; therefore he wants to leave her now, even though she is pregnant, and for him to stay she has to ask forgiveness for him having a dream about her having sex with someone else years ago. She has to appolgize for what he dreams about her?

It wasn't just an ordinary dream, he thought God was revealing the truth to him (doesn't that go against God's nature?). He waited for Grace to wake up to ask her if it was true (it was). The thing is.....both of them were not virgins when they had met....and they both already knew that about one another. IOW...it wasn't a hidden secret, but after the dream, he said if he had known that, he wouldn't have married her. He comes to that decision when she's about to give birth to their first child---and he believes that came from God? That makes me believe his discernment is a bit "off".

ETA---I think Athene posted as I was writing my post out. Thanks for a better clarification.....I was going by memory.

 

[Athene]

Christianity is a religion and the Bible has do's and don'ts. Do be generous, do be loving, do keep my commandments, don't get drunk, don't sleep around.